As Diane shares her devastating story of surviving narcissistic abuse. She empowers women to become educated about abuse and trauma and start seeking safety.

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He just became increasingly mean to me, to the point where I thought something was seriously wrong with me. I started going to a therapist because I thought, ‘What is wrong with me? I am nothing.’ Every day, he found something wrong with me. He would tell me how horrible I was, just horrible things.

Diane, victim of narcissistic abuse

Transcript: Surviving Narcissistic Abuse

Anne: I randomly met an old friend from college. I was so excited to see her. And I learned that she had been surviving narcissistic abuse, the same thing that all of us who listen to this podcast have been through. I’m going to call her Diane. I said, don’t tell me anything, come on the podcast. So I have not heard the whole story yet.

Welcome Diane.

Diane: Thank you. I’m so happy to be here with you.

Diane’s College Years & First Marriage

Anne: So in college, you had a one-year-old daughter. And you married, and then you divorced.

Diane: Yes, well, she’s 23 now. Yeah, right after I graduated from college, I had another child, and then we divorced.

Anne: And when you divorced, you didn’t know why the divorce was happening. And then, because you didn’t understand who he really was. You ended up remarrying him.

Diane: I remarried him because he returned to me, and then we were together for another 17 years. And in the last two years, I found everything. So for that entire 17 year period, he was a sex addict, and he had multiple things going on, and I had been surviving narcissistic abuse.

Surviving Narcissistic Abuse With First Divorce

Anne: Let’s talk about the first divorce. What did you think was the cause?

Diane: What’s so hard about all this is, I thought it was me. And for so many years, I thought it was me and needed to be better, and I wasn’t enough and was always trying. And now going through all the things, that’s why I saw you and I was like, I’m so happy. I wish I had found your podcasts and your website a year ago, because it’s been this journey of hardship for a long time of surviving narcissistic abuse.

But that first time he actually had an affair, but I didn’t know that, so I just thought it was me. And so then when he came back to me, I was like, “Oh I’m changed, I’m better”. I’m good.

Anne: So he says I’m leaving you. I’m just not happy in this marriage. You’re not good enough, and he takes off. Meanwhile, he lies to you, manipulates you and abuses you. Because the things he’s telling you aren’t true. And he’s putting you down on purpose to hide his own stuff.

You don’t know any of this. Two years after the divorce, he returns and says I messed up. You are amazing.

Remarriage & Continued Struggles Surviving Narcissistic Abuse

Diane: And honestly, now I look at it and it was like love bombing. Totally like I love you, you’re the best thing that ever happened to me. I want to be a good dad to our kids. And so of course I was like, yes, I want to save my family. I want him to be the dad, he can be in my kids lives.

So I thought, Oh yes, he’s changed. I’ve changed. We’ve grown up a little bit. So then we got back together, and we had two more kids. Throughout this time, it was always that word line of, I need to be better. If I was thinner, if I’m cleaner, then he’ll be happy. And so I look at it now, and I’m like, what was wrong with me?

But I was in this cycle of trying to make him happy, while giving more and more. And taking less and less from him and surviving narcissistic abuse.

Anne: So not knowing the details of your story. There’s the abuse that everybody recognizes as abuse, physical violence. And then there’s the abuse hidden: the narcissistic abuse, lying. Was it narcissistic abuse, physical violence? What types of abuse were showing up?

Surviving Narcissistic Abuse & Realizing The Truth

Diane: He was never physically abusive to me. But he would get in my face and make me feel like, why is the house so messy? Belittle me in front of our kids, and I look at it now, and I’m like, how did I not know? It’s crazy to me.

Anne: Well, you didn’t know because he was lying to you and hiding everything. You were resisting abuse the entire time. Doing everything you could to try and resolve it. You were surviving narcissistic abuse. You’re crazy smart.

Diane: Well, I would think so, right? I have two master’s degrees. I should be smart enough to see this, but you don’t. And that’s one thing I really, whenever I talk to people, I’m like, you don’t realize because they’re master manipulators.

He makes the world fit his needs. And I was totally okay with that. I just went along with it.

The Second Divorce

Diane: My ex is military, we had moved to a new duty station. And, I thought, oh good, this is our starting over, we’re gonna renew, we’re gonna be a better family.

And at that point he started dating somebody else. So he just became increasingly mean to me to the point where I thought something was seriously wrong with me. I started going to a therapist at that point, because I’m like what is wrong with me? I am nothing, and every day he found something wrong with me.

He would tell me how horrible I was, just horrible things. And it wasn’t until my daughter, who the daughter we talked about, she looked at me and she said, “Mom, is Dad having an affair?” Then I started looking and then that’s when I found out.

When I first found out, he told me it was an emotional affair because I looked at the text messages and I found text messages. So he told me there was nothing physical. So then I thought, okay, well, I’m going to be better. I’m going to love him better.

And then about a month later, I found he had been using a different app and I was surviving narcissistic abuse. There was a text from the girl who said, “I haven’t woken up next to you. I can’t wait till we do it again.”

Surviving Narcissistic Abuse & Trauma

Anne: How did you find out about the additional abuse and betrayal from the whole 17 years? Did it just start coming out, or was it something that you started piecing together, that you had been surviving narcissistic abuse?

Diane: Both actually. I just became super detective, like looking through emails, looking through everything. And I started to see this pattern of things where he’s been on porn sites. But I had never believed that was happening, I guess. And then I found that he’d been on dating sites. He’s military. So every time he was away from me, he was dating, he was sleeping with other people.

So I confronted him. And then the world fell apart. Because he was going to be better, he was going to love me, blah, blah, blah. I fell apart for a while. At one point, he was for lack of a better term, verbal diarrhea, everything. I still think there’s probably stuff I don’t know, which I’m good not knowing. But definitely from their first divorce until this divorce, he had been with multiple partners, multiple people. Doing whatever he wanted to do.

When you said “I fell apart.” What did you mean by that? I’ll tell you what I did. I sat on the couch. And I ate buckets of popcorn. I watched a ton of Netflix. I watched every episode of every season of the good wife. Which, by the way, is the perfect show to watch when you’re going through this. Also, I gained weight. What did your falling apart look like?

The Impact Of Trauma

Diane: Actually, I went the other way. I did not eat for probably four months. Like I lost 30 pounds. I again internalized that it was me. That abuse had been such a cycle. I’m not enough, so I’ll be better. I’ll show him how much better I am. I’ll show him that I’m better than anybody else, he would choose kind of thing. On top of all this.

So there’s one extra component there. I found out my mom had a brain tumor three days after I found out the full affair he’d been having this time. My whole world exploded. I could not sleep. And couldn’t eat. I would just be like, Oh, I need to do this better. And I need to do that better. I did not read a book for like six months. And for me, that was crazy. You know, I’d get two sentences and it’s a cycle again. And so, it was hard.

Anne: That’s not crazy. That’s totally normal. Diane and I graduated in English teaching. We’re both readers and writers, and the same thing happened to me. I could not read for a long time. I’d try, but I just couldn’t do it. I was like, if anyone is like me. They’re not going to be able to read articles I write when they are surviving narcissistic abuse. But they can listen. So that’s why I started a podcast.

Diane: You’re so brilliant. That was exactly what is necessary.

Anne: So yeah, you’re losing weight, you can’t read. What happened with your mom?

Surviving Narcissistic Abuse After Mom Died

Diane: So my mom actually passed away. So this all came out March 3rd, and my mom died May 2nd. It was just trauma on trauma on trauma. This is my least favorite story to tell. I have to tell you. So my ex was careful. He didn’t want anyone to know about what he’d been doing. One of the reasons is he’s military, but he was also very manipulative.

If you go through narcissistic betrayals, he obviously wanted everyone to believe how good he was, who he was. So he came to my mom’s funeral and acted all the part, loving and everything else. And then literally we buried my mom. It had been two hours. He came to my house. And asked if we could discuss the terms of our divorce.

Okay. In front of my children, two hours after I buried my mom. That one was the icing on the cake. I was like, no. As much as I am hurt, this is my boundary. You need to leave.

Anne: Oh, I’m so sorry. That is awful. All of that is awful. Time and time again, women come on the podcast and share their stories. They’re like nightmares, horrifying, like the jaws of hell were gaping after you.

Diane: So, so much. That phrase came into my mind many times.

Anne: Mine too. I just felt like hell was trying to swallow me whole. And I was just like holding on by like a piece of dental floss.

Diane: So true. Any amount of just staying alive every single day, just making it through.

Anne: I’m so sorry about your mom. I’m so sorry.

Be Patient With Yourself

Diane: I’ve said many times, the divorce was fine. Just losing my mom was so difficult at this time. If you lose your spouse, you know, you lose a marriage. Usually you have your mom to go to, or vice versa. You lose your mom. Usually you have somebody to depend on. And I kind of felt like everything was gone all in one.

I’ve learned so much in this year. I tell people all the time, and people come to me and they’re like, everybody has a story. We all have these traumas, and I just say be patient with yourself. How many times I’m like, I just want to feel better. I want to be better today. Just be patient with yourself and be kind to yourself, because it’s going to take a while.

Anne: Yes, of course, like take as much time as you need. We all need a rest, right?

Realizations & Clarity

Anne: When did you start realizing it wasn’t you? When did you start thinking? Wait a minute. He’s been an abuser the entire time, and I have been surviving narcissistic abuse.

Diane: I think when I really did is when my mom was sick. So my mom, she had the brain tumor, but what happened is called carcino motor meningitis.

She had cancerous meningitis. So she was fine on April 1st and she passed away May 2nd. So it was like four weeks really fast. And so I had come back home. I was trying to help. It was still about him. I’m going through this trauma and all of this, and he was still trying to protect his image. And at that point I was like, wait a second.

Yeah, this isn’t me, you know, and it wasn’t about my kids losing their grandma. He had to protect himself from anybody thinking badly of him. And so that was my first indication, but it took me a long time to really just go, wait, I have worth. I’m okay with who I am.

And he’s been trying to destroy me for so long, but I’m not going to lie. Even like some days I just still feel like. Wait, what’s wrong with me? And I’m like, wait, no, that’s manipulation. I need to stop and be okay. I’m okay.

Anne: Yeah, how would you describe your clarity now after a year’s gone by?

Diane: My ex is with his girlfriend that he left me for And I think about it.

Manipulations Continue

Diane: I’m like, I just want to grab her and be like listen, this is gonna happen. This is what he’s doing, he’s love bombing you. He’s gaslighting you. He’s gonna use you till there’s nothing left. And then I have to step back and be like, that’s my clarity. I can see that, but there’s no way she could see that.

And she would just say, Oh, she’s some crazy ex wife trying to form me here. But I can see that for me and I can see it for my kids. And that’s what’s so hard, because he still does it to my kids. He manipulates them. And so I just have to step back and be like, they’ll have to realize it for themselves. That they are surviving narcissistic abuse.

But it still hurts. It still hurts. Like I can see it, it is clear. But there are still those elements that sometimes it still affects me and bugs me. But I’m happy that I am where I am now

Effects On Children

Anne: So your oldest daughter, she was the one that tipped you off and said maybe dad’s having an affair. How does she feel about it?

Diane: We actually just moved out of state. She is also trying to escape the cycle, because she’s finally realized. But the reason she saw it is because she saw how changed he was. Because she’d grown up with this dad who was so genuinely interested in her, and then suddenly, she didn’t mean anything to him either.

She wasn’t enough. And so he started to change on her. And so she wondered why, and now she’s not part of the supply because she doesn’t believe any of his lies anymore. So he is just mean to her. And so she wanted to escape where we were. That’s why she moved out of state. Cause she wants to be away. It’s totally affected her, because she questions her worth, but she knows she’s good, but she still loves her dad.

And that’s what’s so hard is he’s still my children’s father and they want a dad. I mean, that’s the weird thing we’re working through right now too.

Anne: What the kids mean to him is they make him look good. They make him look good at church. When he goes to the grocery store, everybody smiles and says, Oh, you must be such a good dad. When the kids don’t mean anything outside of himself, and they are surviving narcissistic abuse.

The Aftermath & Healing

Diane: Exactly, that’s exactly right. My older kids can see that. So my eldest is 23 and then my next daughter is 20. And then I have a son who’s 16 and a daughter who’s 12. My 12 year old is still in it, but my older kids can see that. They kind of accepted that fate.

So hard, I needed somebody who had been there. And that’s why I was like, I wish I had your site because I would have loved it. One thing that I tell people all the time is when you have trauma, it’s like breaking the glass. Those little pieces of glass go into every other memory. You’ll see a Coke can, and suddenly you have this trauma memory.

So, understanding that the trauma we face is like PTSD. There are parts of us so broken. It’s not just like fixing this one little memory. There are so many memories. There are so many pieces of glass embedded somewhere else. You have to go through this.

Anne: Yeah, that’s a really good example about the glass and how traumatized we feel. And I also wish that you would’ve found Betrayal Trauma Recovery earlier. Cause then maybe we would have connected sooner. But at least we have each other now.

The Importance Of Support Systems Surviving Narcissistic Abuse

Anne: Are you still teaching?

Diane: I am teaching high school English, and then I actually did my MBA, so I also teach marketing.

Anne: So of our graduating class, most of us got our masters. You got your MBA, and I think you also have your masters in education. I have an M.Ed., and now I’m obviously podcasting.

Another one of our friends from college got her master’s, and now she’s a principal. The women in our class have done some amazing things. Our class was full of such strong women who’ve been such good examples to me. And you. Like I haven’t seen you for years, but I still feel like we connect and have the support system of women who care about me. It’s heartwarming.

Diane: Yes, I agree. I felt the same way when I saw you. I was like, oh my heck, it was like no time had passed. I wasn’t crazy. I’m not the crazy one. I’m not the one who caused this. And you’ll understand. You’ve always impressed me with everything. Even when we were in school, you were such a go getter and so amazing and talented.

And so, when I saw you, I’m like, this is your mission. You see such a need here, because there is, there’s so many of us just struggling. For the last year, I’ve searched for help in so many ways, and that you’ve assembled this. Is amazing to me, because we need it.

Reflections On College

Anne: Yeah, can you imagine back in college, if I was like, I’m going to create a lesson plan about, pornography and abuse. Rather than Anne Frank.

Diane: I know. Multicultural Studies. Yes.

Anne: Thinking about that. If you could go back in time and you saw us at the library studying. And you could say anything to us. What would you say.

Diane: I think the biggest thing would be to trust your instincts. Because lots of times I felt like something was off and I felt like it wasn’t me, but then I would trust his words. I would trust the way he treated me. I believed these lies, and I would believe that something was wrong with me. So I would say, trust yourself and you are so unique and wonderful.

And honestly, you are worth everything. And so don’t let anyone ever take that away from you. Just trust yourself and know that you are powerful. Obviously, we didn’t think it was abuse, but have boundaries. Those are my two big things. Trust your instincts and have boundaries.

The Empowerment & Strength Of Surviving Narcissistic Abuse

Anne: I love that you’re still teaching. and you can teach your students about what a mutual relationship is about. Consent, about truth, about misogyny. Of course I’m teaching in a different way now through podcasting. But education is so important so that every victim can be educated about narcissistic abuse, emotional abuse, and learn to set those boundaries. It’s not our fault that no one taught us.

Both of us were resisting abuse the entire time. You were resisting it because you thought it was you, and you did everything you could to stop it. That is resisting abuse. So you’re incredible, strong, and powerful. This is what I talk about in The Living Free Workshop.

Diane: I love that, exactly right. Your example of doing this is so powerful too, because it makes me go, I can do this. And so just the next person that we can talk to, that we can help, it just makes us that much stronger.

Anne: You’re awesome. Diane, I admired you back then. You were going through college with a young daughter and you were brave and incredible. And here we are 20 years later. So when you get back in town, let’s go have lunch.

Diane: I would love that. Thank you so much, my friend. Seriously, you’re amazing. And I’m so grateful for your work and your friendship. You’re amazing.

Listen To The Betrayal Trauma Recovery Podcast

Anne: Most likely along your journey to healing. You connected with friends old and new who have been through this. So thinking about Diane and how she wished she could have found Betrayal Trauma Recovery sooner. If you haven’t already, will you please let them know about the BTR podcast? And about our website, BTR.ORG.

I love my job, educating women about narcissistic abuse and emotional abuse, and how to get to emotional safety. So I appreciate every one of you who has shared our podcast episodes on social media or tagged us. It would have been cool if Diane had found it before we met. And she was like, wait, that’s a friend from college, that would have been cool.