Women are often surprised to learn that lying is emotional abuse. Many victims blame themselves for his lies and other abusive behaviors in trying to make sense of a chaotic situation. The responsibility lies completely with the abuser. He is fully accountable for his decisions to lie and manipulate. 

It is never the victim’s fault. Women deserve support and safety: join the Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group today.

Whether He Has a Diagnosis Or Not, Lying Is Emotionally Abusive

While some abusers may be diagnosed with various mental disorders and/or illnesses, many are not. Some women may find that if their abuser receives a diagnosis, it may seem more compassionate to justify or minimize his abusive behavior. Regardless of why he chooses to be abusive, women deserve safety.

Transcript: Yes, Lying Is Emotional Abuse

Anne: I have Kelly, a victim of emotional abuse on today’s episode. She was a victim of financial abuse and also sexual coercion. She’s going to share her story. And although Kelly and I are both Christian, we know that many listeners to this podcast aren’t. BTR is interfaith and inner paradigm. We welcome everyone.

We also invite everyone to share their own personal experience. So as you hear us mention our belief in God, it’s not to offend or to proselytize, but just because we’re sharing from our own experience. And if you’re interested in sharing your experience from whatever faith perspective or paradigm you ascribe to. I would be honored to hear your story. So contact me at podcast@btr.org to set up an interview. Okay, let’s start with your story.

Anne: Did you recognize your husband’s abusive behaviors at first?

Kelly: I certainly did not. In fact, it was probably about three and a half years into our marriage before someone first told me they could be considered abuse, that lying is emotional abuse. Up until that point, I had always known that abuse in my mind involved physical violence. And that was not at play in my marriage.

I never had any bruises or anything like that. And so while I knew things were not good and it was a difficult relationship, I thought that’s all it was. That you marry for better or worse. And that we went through many of the worst times is what it seemed like.

Anne: During that time, where you didn’t recognize the abuse, were you aware of pornography use or any other consent issues related to your sexual relationship?

Discovering The Double Life

Kelly: A few months after we married, it became evident that I had married someone living a double life. There were huge and extreme lies, and I didn’t know that lying is emotional abuse. It was about four weeks into our marriage when I first discovered all these.

The one day stands out in my mind started out just like any other day. I grabbed my things and went to work. He is in his last semester of undergraduate studies and is graduating in just a few months after we married. And I got to work, and a little later I realized my charger for my laptop is back at the house.

So I finished meeting with a client, and ran home to grab it. I walked in the front door, he was sitting on the couch in the living room, and I was confused. Because I knew he should be in classes at that time. So I had no idea why he was there. And obviously, I jumped a little bit when I opened the door, not thinking anyone would be there.

And I said, what are you doing here? He was flustered, and he starts mumbling about how he has a big test coming up for school that he needs to study for. So he skipped classes to focus on that. And I remember in my head thinking, Well, the semester just started a few weeks ago. He should not be at that point yet, of needing to skip things to study for an exam when he’s only had class for a few weeks.

But, like I said, it was kind of in the middle of a work day. I needed to get back to work, so I just said, Alright, we’ll talk about it later, and left.

Not Knowing Lying Is Emotional Abuse

Kelly: It took around two months to figure out what was going on. And I knew that he had a history of not doing well in school, so I was immediately concerned and worried about it. And really, every time I tried to talk to him, he never had any straight answers on anything. So eventually, time after time, of trying to ask, okay, well, what time are your classes or which day do you have classes? Or when do you have projects due?

Just so I could keep up with it all. He couldn’t figure it out and eventually got to the point where I said, well, why don’t you just log into your portal online so I can look at it with you? And try and sort through all this so that we’re both on the same page and not confused here?

He couldn’t do that either. And I told him, well, you know, try and go to the IT department. Maybe you need to get your account reset, all that sort of thing. Eventually, a couple weeks later, he still couldn’t do it. And I eventually sat down with him, and I just said, okay, right here, right now, you need to pull up the site while I’m sitting with you and log in.

After an hour or so of arguing, eventually it came out that he was not in school. And in fact, he had dropped out of school for about two years. So that entire time period that we were dating, engaged, and newly married, I have no idea how he spent his time. No one had any idea about this. I didn’t know that lying is emotional abuse.

Affairs & Pornography

Kelly: His parents, everyone in his family, thought he was attending classes. All of his friends did as well, but he was just falsifying information along the way. So after that, I felt like the rug was taken out from underneath me. I started to question other things that seemed confusing or just kind of struck me as something wasn’t quite right. And through that, what I discover is that he had multiple affairs while we were dating.

I quickly discovered he had slept with more than one woman multiple times. There was definitely sexual infidelity throughout the time we were together.

Anne: This story is consistent with pornography use. The likelihood of him using pornography is extremely high. Pornography is not something discoverable. So even if he used pornography and you never saw it, and he doesn’t own up to it, you would never know. There’s no way to prove it or disprove it.

So if I was a betting person, which I am not definitely. I bet he used pornography for sure. He runs you in circles for months. And because you’re caring, compassionate and kind, you’re concerned and trying to help him out. And not once did you think, wait a minute, it’s not that he can’t log in or needs a password. A few months later, you realize it’s because he’s not enrolled. You realize he was lying, but not that lying is emotional abuse.

Lying Is Emotional Abuse & False Graduations

Kelly: Yeah, it never crosses my mind that I would need to be a detective with my spouse. I did not grow up in a home like that. My parents have a great marriage and a great relationship where they work as partners together. And so when I entered my own marriage, that’s what I anticipated. But it quickly became evident that that’s not what was going on. That’s just a quick, brief snippet of things. We stayed married for close to five years.

And throughout that time, there were three occasions where I believe he was actually graduating from college. He falsified grade reports that he would show me. I threw him a giant graduation party at one point with about 40 of our closest friends there. And after the party, he just blew up at me, and he was so furious that I would go and do something like that.

I was confused, and I think it was something that he is just embarrassed about. Knowing that he had had trouble in school. I was trying to have that empathy to understand, wow, maybe I misstepped my bounds here. I shouldn’t have done that. And I thought it was considerate, but it wasn’t something he wants. Really, the only way I discovered he didn’t graduate is because I graduated from my master’s program and went to the same university.

When I got the list of graduates, I saw my name there and his was not there. And that was the only way that I had found out.

Anne: Wow, and you were being abused, lying is emotional abuse. That must’ve been shocking.

The Extent Of Lies, Education & Work

Anne: You caught him several times, but instead of just coming out and telling you the truth, he continued to lie, wow. Lying is emotional abuse, it doesn’t matter the extent of the lies. So many of them are about having sex with other women, emotional affairs, or their double life.

But what I don’t understand is why didn’t he ever just say, Hey, I don’t want to go to school. I’d rather do something else. Like the truth is beyond them. I don’t want to just have sex with you. I want to have sex with a lot of people. Would you still like to be married to me? You know, these are pretty simple things to say.

But because of their exploitative privilege, they want to continue to exploit. And they want the entitlements that come along with a happy marriage or college degree. But they don’t want to do the work. Was he employed at all during this time?

Kelly: I’m actually not sure. He bounced around a lot on different part time jobs, but it was never very consistent. The number one question I get asked about all of this when I share these details is what was his end game here?

You know, someone will find out he doesn’t have a degree. The first job he had after allegedly graduating, he ends up fired from that job. Because he falsified his information and told them he did have a degree when he didn’t. So I think the most difficult part of this is to try and recognize that our brains function differently here. While we all recognize that this will not work in the long run. That just did not connect for him.

Forged MCAT Scores

Kelly: He was set to attend med school, as shocking as that sounds. Well, we paid for the MCAT, at least I thought we had. I’m not sure what he uses all that money for now. And he actually did not take the exam, I learned months later. But he did forge MCAT scores, and he had those mailed to our house so that I could open them up and see them in the mail.

And the tricky part with all this is I think he’s very intelligent. And so I think he felt that not going to school would mean he’s working a job below his potential. Because I remember sitting down and talking about those MCAT scores and asking, Well, why did we spend this money on this if you’re not even in school right now?

How could you even take the test if you’re not in school right now? The national program like this checks those sorts of things. So how did that even happen? And eventually through that, I discovered he hadn’t taken it. But the one point that sticks out in my mind is that he is so proud of the detail he had gone to for the forgery.

I remember him showing me the paper and talking about how he measures out the margins and all the indentations everywhere, so that there’s no way I could ever guess it was falsified.

Anne: Wow, if he had only put that much effort into school.

Kelly: That’s exactly what I said.

Lying Is Emotional Abuse & Consequences

Anne: I had a conversation with someone who told me, this abuse stance you take about pornography use is so extreme. They were telling me. It’s so extreme! You know, these guys are really good guys who use porn. And I’m like, I don’t argue with you that some of them seem like really good guys. But if someone willingly uses pornography without their wife’s knowledge, knowing that if she knew, she would be upset.

Knowing that if I tell her that I use porn, she will be upset. So I’m going to wear my white shirt and tie to church every week. I’m going to participate. I’m going to act like I don’t use porn for all intents and purposes. And every time porn comes up, I’m going to be like, yeah, porn’s not cool.

Like that is serious stuff. Lying is emotional abuse. This is not just like, Oh, he’s ashamed or embarrassed. Like it’s serious. It’s a serious consent issue. And your husband, people would be like, Whoa, this guy is a psychopath, right? I’m sure many people have said that to you when you tell the story, like Holy Cow, the extent that he went to.

But I don’t think people realize that men go to this extent just to cover their porn use quite a bit. Like, a lot. It’s very, very common, women are going through hell. When you’re married to someone, they’re willing to lie to you like that. About college, or about porn, or about anything else to that extent.

Kelly: Absolutely.

Personality Disorder Diagnosis

Kelly: And you know, it’s not until I finally learn what abuse actually was, that lying is emotional abuse. This was not just us going through a difficult time. I had it in my head that I was overly controlling. And so he feels pressured and embarrassed, and that’s why he would hide things because I was just too controlling. And putting too much pressure on him. In my case, I was actually the one financially stable.

I had the education, I had the career, and he was the one floundering. We eventually reach a crossroads, where I told him you are either moving out of the house now. Or you need to go and have this psych. eval. done. So we can try and figure out what we’re working with here.

And when the results came back, they did say he had a personality disorder. And that it was likely an antisocial personality disorder, which is sociopathy. In my case, I did get a bit of that closure there, having that medical explanation and having the doctor turn to me and say, “You need to get out now. And you need to run as fast and as far as possible, because he will never ever change.”

And not many women get that. Many of them have this inkling that something is wrong, but they don’t get that official diagnosis. And what I say to them is what you’re talking about, with just the action of covering up pornography or other things. At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter if you have that diagnosis or not.

Religious Perspectives On Change: Lying Is Emotional Abuse

Kelly: At the end of the day, that is not a healthy relationship. That is manipulative, controlling behavior. And it doesn’t matter what they’re trying to cover up or what sort of diagnosis they may or may not have officially on a paper there. At the end of the day, it’s just not right.

Anne: Exactly, most religious people I know believe in change. Especially Christians, they’re like, Christ makes everything possible. With God, all things are possible. Nothing is impossible with Christ, etc. And so to say this person’s never going to change.

Most religious people put up a little bit of a, like, well, wait, that’s what, Christ is for. That’s what the atonement was for. And so they get a little bit like, “No, I think people can.” I genuinely do think people can change.

And so with that, I want to say like, Okay, can you hold the space for both of these places? That someone can change, but if they have not changed, they haven’t changed.

There’s such a difference between someone saying, I will change or I can change, and actually changing. They’re two totally different things. The religious community hasn’t yet figured that out. They haven’t figured out that just believing someone can change is not the equivalent of someone actually being changed. And lying is emotional abuse.

Kelly: Oh, definitely. I think it goes back to how you see God’s character. I believe in a God who gives us free will. He will not force anything on us. And I can sit, and I can hope and pray that my husband will change. But if my husband’s not willing, that’s not going to happen.

Efforts To Save The Marriage

Kelly: Eventually, that’s what I had to learn in my own marriage. It didn’t matter that I was willing to do anything and everything to save it and that I was bending over backwards with everything.

We got to the point where I was working full time, I was in grad school full time. And I told him, don’t worry about any of the housework at home. Or anything like that, because you just really, really need to graduate and figure this out. Someone had to eventually tell me, Kelly, you know, you can do all that. But at the end of the day, it is still his choice.

It is still his decision to make, and to make a marriage work, you need two people to be on board with that You can’t just have one person take on everything.

Anne: The other issue is do you want to be married to someone you literally do everything for? And for them to do just menial tasks.

Kelly: Yeah, that’s a good question. And I should clarify there, not that I was this perfect Christian on a pedestal, and he was awful. But I will say the thought you just mentioned never even crosses my mind. Because I was raised in a conservative Christian church that believes divorce is wrong.

And I never consider divorce an option throughout this entire time. The only reasons I know divorce is okay are if you are physically abused or if there is an affair.

Lying Is Abuse, Marriage Counseling With An Abuser

Kelly: To show you where my mindset is at that time, I actually insist that we go to a marriage counselor, you know, right after that. Four weeks in, when I found something wrong, I said, Hey, I’m the good Christian wife. What do we do? We go to counseling and try to figure this out. I expected the counselor to respond back and have some sort of horror, I guess, about what had happened. Or about the depth of the deception going on.

But instead, he just kind of said, well, you know, you guys are still young. And it sounds like he’s struggling here and needs to figure some things out for himself along the way. Hopefully, once you get through that, things will be good. And you guys need to remember you’re married now, so you don’t tell anyone else about this. He didn’t know lying is emotional abuse.

This is a marriage issue between husband and wife. And I stuck to that for four years. I didn’t tell any family or friends what was going on. And it isn’t until about four years before I actually tell my husband one day. I said, if you cannot stop this, if you cannot stop this lying about everything, then you need to find a prostitute to sleep with.

Because if you do that, I know that I can file for divorce. That mindset now, I’m horrified by. The legalism behind that, of thinking, wow, is that the God that I serve? Who thinks, okay, as long as you check off this one exact specific box, then it’s okay to leave.

Lies About School, Finances, & Affairs

Kelly: But part of that was continually said to me, because I went back to that counselor at the beginning. I went back and met with him on my own. And I said, look, I’ve now found out not just about the lie that has to do with school. There was financial infidelity at play here, and I told him about the affairs I had learned about.

I said, you know, could I get an annulment or divorce? Based on some sort of thing of qualifying for being deceived into marrying him under false pretenses here, or just the sexual infidelity. He told me, well, no, that’s not considered adultery.

Anne: I hear this all the time. The affair happened years ago. So it’s not adultery now. Or his porn use isn’t considered adultery. I’m like, who cares if it’s considered adultery or not? It’s wrong. And I don’t want this in my relationship. This is not a mutual relationship.

But instead, the therapist enables him, also by clergy and society. The expectations of men are like, close to nothing. Apparently there’s nothing. that he could do. That was so terrible. That would warrant not exploiting you. Exploiting you is apparently fine. But the expectations of women are so much higher. She has to keep a job and struggle through school, keep a clean house and keep the relationship together.

Kelly: Absolutely, I’m thankful now. Because I don’t believe Jesus would tell me that the specific dates he had sex with another woman are what makes the difference.

Anne: Absolutely not. Lying is emotional abuse.

Kelly: I think Jesus would choose to focus on where his devotion lies. And what a marriage covenant is actually supposed to be about, not the technicalities of the timing.

Lying Is Emotional Abuse, Absolutely

Anne: Absolutely. I could not agree with you more. It’s actually insane.

Kelly: It is.

Anne: It is insane., I keep thinking about the conversations I have with pornography addiction recovery therapists, or couples therapists. People who apparently say lying is wrong. But they don’t go as far as to say that lying like this and having a completely separate double life is emotional abuse. So apparently. lying is wrong. But it’s not that big of a deal that he consistently lies to his wife.

It’s not that big of a deal that he has forged scores at his school. Lied about everything about himself. Not that big of a deal that he lies to hide his porn use or infidelity. That’s not abusive to her.

That’s crazy. Lying is emotional abuse, absolutely. And it makes no sense that they’re trying to downplay it. Wouldn’t they try to warn people about how serious it is. It makes no sense. So let’s go back to before you knew it was abuse. You said you wanted to take the pressure off of him. That happened to me too. My now ex-husband at the time was in “recovery” from his, “pornography addiction.”

And so I wanted to make sure he was okay. And so I did all the housework, and I made sure he had time to go to all his 12 step meetings and all the therapy. Which he loved because he got all this attention from it. Plus, he didn’t have to be home with tiny little kids with snotty noses, and he didn’t have to help with the housework. So essentially, I’m isolating myself more and more.

Organizing For Education

Anne: So with you, was there anything else you try to do to establish safety as you resist this abuse? Right, you were full on. Resisting what’s happening by trying to figure it out. Can you think of any more specific examples of the ways you were resisting this abuse? Trying to resolve things.

Kelly: Yes, absolutely. So a continual issue for us, is he going to graduate or not? And we’re racking up student loans here for no reason, because you’re not even attending classes. One of the things I tried to do there was help him get more organized.

I figured it’s my job here to help support him, and I’m good at organization. So I bought poster boards, and I tried to create giant calendars for him to use with things. He told me no, I don’t like that idea. So I tried to do a shared calendar with our phones and Google to see if maybe an electronic format would be better.

No, he, he didn’t like that one either. So then I researched the best organizational tools to help people who struggle with that. And I bought two different planner organizer options for him to use. And he never used any of those. So that is a small isolated example of where I thought, Okay, if I can do everything I can to help him with this, he can get through it.

Therapeutic Blaming: Lying Is Emotional Abuse

Kelly: And beyond that, eventually, it is evident that it is a much bigger problem than something isolated specifically to school. So we went to a marriage weekend at one point. Which the whole point was to try and reconnect and learn better communication skills. Because I thought maybe that is the problem. I am “controlling” and my communication is “too abrasive”, so we need to learn a better way to communicate.

Anne: When you say that, we’re putting that in quotes, listeners, she was not controlling, and her communication was not too abrasive. They were just saying that to pin it on her. You’ve all been told that.

None of it is true. Betrayal Trauma Recovery is a women’s empowerment organization. So I want to just say, when she said that, she put that in quotes. And any of you being told that, it is false. You communicate just fine.

Kelly: Absolutely, definitely. And to clarify that too, insisting on the truth should never be too much of a burden for anyone to bear. Let’s just be clear on that.

Anne: No! Lying is emotional abuse.

Kelly: No, absolutely not. So we went to a marriage weekend seminar at one point. Which was a pretty big undertaking for us. Again, I was the only one who worked regularly during this time. He is racking up debt left and right. We had a tight budget, but we ended up getting help with a sponsorship to attend that.

Love Is A Decision & Trying Every Option

Kelly: I will never forget, they gave us a magnet saying “to love is a decision.” And I took that to heart. I thought, I need to make sure I am making that decision every day. I hung it on our fridge, and it stayed there for years. After I separated from him, I remember going to the gym one day and running into a church member. They’d heard what was going on. They came up to me, and they knew that I had decided to ask him to move out.

And I was the one preparing to file for divorce. And they sat me down and told me, you know, you need to remember that loving someone is a decision. We also went to a prayer conference later on, because I thought, well, I believe all things are possible through God. And if we can pray enough, somehow God can work a miracle here. But of course, we always returned from the weekends, and nothing changed. It was back to the same.

Anne: That love is a decision. You can choose to love somebody. But you can also choose safety. Emotional safety, financial safety, sexual safety, and you don’t have to choose that other person’s manipulation over your own safety.

Kelly: Absolutely. Because love involves consequences. It’s not just an outpouring of nonstop second chances. That’s what I realize. I do remember one of my good friends saying to me, you know, take your time to make this decision, because it’s up to you.

But be sure in your heart that you feel comfortable with it and at peace. And what I needed to do to get to that point was feel like I had exhausted every possible option out there, knowing that lying is emotional abuse.

Seeking Safety & Separation

Anne: I think most women do. I felt the same way. I have many friends who have gone through this, who have exhausted every possibility. The only thing I would caution people about is to get to safety as soon as possible. Whatever that looks like. If that means separating your financial situation, if that means he moves out of the house. I don’t know what that looks like for you. Mine was arrested. You may or may not know. And he got a no contact order.

This is what The Living Free Workshop is about, taking small steps to get to safety.

He couldn’t come within a thousand feet of my home. And has a court order not to text me about anything but the kids. Later on, I blocked him on my phone. That said, I did not file for divorce. For me, pouring everything into my marriage was waiting from a safe distance to see what his actions were going to be. And that was me doing everything I could. If you want to try everything, you can go for it, but please do it from a safe place. Knowing that lying is emotional abuse.

Kelly: Absolutely, my parents were great advocates for me. I eventually went and traveled out to stay with them for a bit, probably about a month after he had moved out. I went home for a few weeks, and I was fortunate to have a job where I could work remotely at the time, so it worked well.

Lying Is Emotional Abuse: Parent’s Intervention

At that point, I laid out some of those requirements. Here’s what I expect you to be doing in this time, and here’s how you need to communicate with me and update me on those. And I will never forget that one night I got an email from him, probably around midnight or so.

Kelly: And I was staying up because he promised to send me an update that day. But of course, in his classic fashion, he waited until 11:59 p.m. to send it. So he could still technically say he sent it that day, but wait until the last possible minute. I had reached out to him because I had already separated out our bank accounts. But when I logged into our joint account, I see it was overdrawn by $1, 500.

And I looked into it more, I realize it is from a credit card he had. He spent all that $1, 500 on cash advances. Which meant he wasn’t working like I thought, also spending at bars. Which meant he was getting very, very drunk. 50 to 60 dollar tabs almost every night of the week. I just started bawling my eyes out. Lying is emotional abuse.

I was so upset and I thought, you know, I am here while I try to go to a counselor. I read every possible book I can and all these topics, and I’m praying and journaling. He is just sitting there going out and drinking every night. My parents heard me crying, woke up and came into my room.

Financial Protection & Legal Steps

My mom sat me down and said, “This needs to stop”. This is not how a marriage works. And I told her, well, sometimes you go through bad things. And she said, no, not like this. This is not how it is. Even in the times where things are bad, it should not be to this level.

Kelly: They were insistent. I need to file for legal separation. That meant all spending he continued to do. Draining our accounts, and I paid off. As long as that legal separation is in place, that will protect me financially. They told me, after that, you can take your time, decide, and pray. As long as you know if you’re getting a divorce. But right here, right now, we need to legally make you safe.

Anne: Exactly, and those things I advocate for. So, when you find out your husband uses porn, you didn’t think he was. He’s, like, I’m a righteous person, I don’t do that sort of thing. Or, I’m a feminist, and so I don’t do that sort of thing. When you recognize that the person you’re living with is not the person you think he is. For whatever reason, school, porn, affairs, whatever.

You need to treat it like a five alarm fire. It is serious business. You can always walk it back later. So many counselors, therapists, clergy, they don’t want to ring the alarm yet. They want to kind of like, we don’t want the worst case scenario, because the worst case scenario in their mind is divorce. And don’t know lying is emotional abuse. They don’t realize the victim is already living in the worst case scenario. And her husband is abusing her, lying is emotional abuse.

Misconceptions About Abuse

Get to safety first, then you can figure out what to do. Victims of emotional abuse resist the abuse in any way they can through therapy and communication with him. Lying is emotional abuse. Kelly, you were amazing. You were doing everything you could to resist abuse. Why do you think it takes us so long to understand what we’re resisting?

Kelly: I think it’s because it’s something that no one ever wants to hear. It’s humiliating. For me, I had always thought women in abusive marriages were those who maybe grew up in a poor family environment. Where they didn’t have the love, stability, and security from a young age, which was not the case for me. I always had that picture in my mind.

Maybe they are weaker, and that’s why they stay and didn’t leave, things like that. And I thought, well, there’s no way that’s me. I’m smart, I have a solid career, and I am well educated. I have a good family, involved in my church, and fully committed to everything I need to do to save my marriage.

So I thought, he’s never actually hit me, and I could make him leave the house at any point when I want to, and I haven’t done that yet. So I am not abused. I think it was also a lack of knowledge of what abuse encompasses. Including that lying is emotional abuse.

Financial Abuse Realization

Kelly: I mentioned the financial abuse a little earlier, but I had no idea that financial abuse was even a thing. I had never heard of that. And I did know that over the years, I had found instances where he had stolen cash from our friends. I discover ed that while we were dating, I moved to Honduras as a missionary for several months, and left all my important documents and everything with him while I was gone.

And he writes himself checks from my bank account while I am gone. Once I was back and we were married, I remember at work one day. I was about to meet with a client, and I got a phone call on my cell phone. And I picked it up, and it was a creditor telling me that we were $3, 000 past due on a credit card I knew nothing about. I didn’t realize that that was financial abuse. I just had no education to even recognize it. Not recognizing that lying is emotional abuse.

Anne: And you were resisting abuse the whole time. Even though you didn’t know lying was emotional abuse. You did exactly what you were supposed to do. It’s just the professionals you went to, the clergy, don’t know anything about abuse, that lying is emotional abuse.

Lack Of Professional Understanding That Lying Is Emotional Abuse

Anne: So you did everything right. And you were led astray. Because if they had studied abuse at all. If they had read a bunch of books on abuse, or if they had visited a domestic violence shelter and talked to them about emotional and psychological abuse. Or if they’d experienced it, they’d have to admit it’s abuse, because it would be staring them in the face. These guys are checking off every box.

But for some reason, abuse is something they desperately want to call something else. It’s a serious problem that these professionals think they know what abuse is and do not. And what bothers me right now is therapists, clergy, and others who tell me I’m going too far by saying lying is emotional abuse. They’re like, this is a good guy. He is just embarrassed.

This is abuse. Anne, you need to chill out. And I’m like, study abuse, and then if you can look me in the eye and say, it’s not abuse. Well, then I guess you’re a liar.

Kelly: It’s interesting, women, I feel like they fall into two buckets. One of the buckets is more the thought in my mind. Where they had a bad childhood growing up, where they’ve basically just known abuse their whole life. Like they don’t know anything else.

Lying Is Emotional Abuse: Religious Naivety & Manipulation

Kelly: But then there’s also this second bucket, and it’s the one I fell into. Where it’s the more naive Christian girls who grew up thinking I’m going to find a strong Christian. Who don’t know that lying is abuse. Who is everything I thought I needed and wanted. Who’s involved in church, who’s active, who’s well liked and well loved. And if that happens, I’m following God’s desire here. So nothing bad can take place.

And I have been shocked to discover that I am not alone in that. That happens more often than not. Abusers take advantage of that and manipulate that so easily. When they know that it’s someone who is genuine, loving and caring. And will be so loyal, because their beliefs hold them there. They see that as vulnerability and something to take advantage of.

Anne: Yep. And we need to educate women of the religious community that the profession of faith is not the same thing as actually living your faith. And lying is emotional abuse.

Kelly: Oh, absolutely.

Advice To Younger Self

Anne: If you could talk to your younger self, what would you tell her?

Kelly: Oh, so many things. I think probably the biggest thing I would say is to approach dating completely differently. I had grown up with a courtship approach, where it was something extremely serious. And if you are with that person, then that should be somebody you’re considering for marriage. I wish I could go back and tell myself now. Don’t make it so serious so quickly. You know, this is the time where you are dating to get to know them.

So when these red flags come up, don’t just dismiss them as something of well. We can work through it, and work through everything. Take those opportunities to say I can leave now. I don’t have to stay here, and I don’t have to continue it, and learn how to have healthy boundaries before you go into dating.

I also wish I could educate myself a little more on what Jesus actually says about divorce. Divorce was something to protect women back then. It was not meant to keep them trapped and stuck in horrible situations forever. The biggest piece of that is that churches tend to rush the forgiveness and reconciliation side of things.

Forgiveness vs. Reconciliation

Kelly: And I think now, my knowledge of forgiveness and how that is not the same thing as trust. It is not the same thing as reconciliation, and recognizing the difference there. That I can choose to forgive someone doesn’t mean I need to continually entrust my heart to them over and over. When they have clearly demonstrated they are not a safe person for me to do that.

Anne: I did a podcast episode of insights I received from the New Testament, and I’ve been regretting it. So I want to bring this up right now, because I was just reading it really quick. I wouldn’t say the Holy Spirit was with me or anything. I was just reading a bunch of scriptures that indicated it’s okay to set boundaries.

And so I was like, “Get away from this bad person.” And I thought, should I air it? Should I not? I aired it. And part of me is like, oh man, I sound so harsh. Like, because there are these two dichotomous concepts going on in Christianity.

Balancing Love & Safety Knowing Lying Is Emotional Abuse

Anne: The first is love your neighbor, forgive, serve, bring them into the fold. And the other one is safety, safety, and safety. There are all these scriptures that say, “If someone’s lying and commits whoredoms, and yada, yada, yada, get away from that person.” And lying is emotional abuse.

And so I think it’s so interesting that Christianity is conglomerated toward the love, serve inside of our church. So the guy’s coming to church, so we should love, serve and help him out. But these other people outside our church, we’re not going to associate with those people. Like anyone inside the church, is automatically safe. And everyone outside the church is automatically not safe.

But, take your time to get to know people. Find out if they’re emotionally mature, if they are really genuine, if they’re honest. Don’t assume they’re safe just because they show up to church and sit in the pew every week.

Kelly: I would add that one of the verses I’ve grown to love over the years now is Matthew 10:16. And literally, this is Jesus instructing us, and he tells us, I’m sending you out like sheep among wolves. He warns us that we need to be careful. And he says, be as wise as serpents, as innocent as doves. He isn’t telling us to sit back and let ourselves be walked over. He’s saying to be smart in it.

Starting A New Relationship

Kelly: It’s interesting, because I’ve been divorced now for several years. And I am now in a relationship with someone else. I have been with them for two years now. This is the first person I am dating outside of my denomination, and is something I never thought would be happening.

Years ago, I would have said, “Well, there’s no way I’d ever consider it.” But I have learned that finding someone who is honest, respectful, and does what they say they will do. Everything in a relationship is a million times easier when you have that in place. The fact that he may not check off the box of the exact same belief system 100% is less important.

I’ve discovered that I have way more in common with him and our worldviews than with many folks in my church. That was a big change moment for me, to recognize that. And be confused by, how have I spent my entire life focusing on, if they don’t have that official membership in this church, I can’t do that.

To then find someone with a completely different background. And find that, no, this person lives out so much more of God’s love than I have ever found in any other relationship I’ve been in.

Anne: We have to live a healthy lifestyle emotionally, physically, sexually. Because we can’t know them if we don’t live them ourselves. So that’s number one. Number two, knowing what those characteristics are, like lying is emotional abuse. And then watching for them is so much different than checking off the box of, do they attend this particular church every week? Do they check all the boxes so that everyone in the community thinks they look good?

Religious Communities & Predators

Anne: I think that’s the problem. Religious communities are a real easy place for predators to put on the mask or groom, because it’s an actual built-in trust mechanism

Kelly: Definitely, that’s what we’re taught. A lot of the things that you need to look for, the people active in church or who are there every week, because those are things that are easy to see at a quick glance on the outside.

I had the mindset that I may not have made the best choice in the spouse I had married. But because I had made that decision, I needed to live with the consequences for the rest of my life. And I just wish I had known about how much of a relational God we serve. And that he cares so much more about people than technicalities.

Anne: Yes. God loves us. He does not want women to be exploited and abused. So many women are praying right now. Please change my husband, and their prayers seem unanswered.

Maybe he is answering our prayers. And he’s saying, “You don’t have to be emotionally abused”. You don’t deserve to be lied to. Lying is emotional abuse, and emotional safety is possible. I want you to be emotionally safe. Let’s focus on your emotional safety.

Anne: Kelly. I appreciate you so much. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on today’s episode.