Is infidelity abuse? Has he lied to you? Emotionally manipulated you? Here’s how to know if his infidelity was emotionally abusive to you.
To learn if you’re experiencing any one of the 19 different types of emotional abuse, take our free emotional abuse test.
Transcript: Is Infidelity Abuse?
Anne: It is humbling to welcome Dr. Omar Minwalla on today’s episode. Dr. Minwalla is a clinical sexologist and a licensed psychologist. We’re talking about, is infidelity abuse. Welcome Dr. Minwalla.
You’re careful in how you decide to label and define things. So can you start with some definitions?
Dr. Minwalla: Sure, let’s review how sex addiction is typically defined. Some professionals use compulsive sexual behavior. Some professionals use sex addiction. Either of those terms is used to describe a disorder related to behavior, where significant negative consequences occur.
With addicts, I realized patterns of interpersonal abuse. Another way of saying that is having a secret sexual life or world while you’re in a relationship or family. Is in and of itself, a form of abuse. In many ways, it’s type of sociopathic behavior. And what I mean is it’s a selfish worldview where often the welfare of others is not respected.
There’s often a lack of remorse or guilt. And there’s often an externalization of blame or responsibility. It’s in essence a long-term pattern of disregarding and violating the rights of others, particularly family members and your intimate partner. While sex addiction and compulsive sexual behavior focus on the behaviors themselves, they usually don’t have a clear diagnosis or labeling of the integrity, abuse, and relational conduct problems.
Anne: I talk with many people who say abuse is going too far. It’s making it way more serious than it needs to be. And I’m thinking without the label of abuse, it does not correctly express the severity of the situation.
Dr. Minwalla: You brought up a really good point, which is that some people feel it’s going too far. I trained as a clinical sexologist.
Clinical Terminology & Deceptive Sexual Life as Abuse
Dr. Minwalla: My training was in sexual offending and offenders. And one of the first things you learn in training is to use appropriate terms. And so, when there’s emotional abuse or psychological abuse. In terms of what we’re talking about, not using the word abuse is actually clinically inaccurate.
I think many sex addiction professionals receive training from an addiction perspective. And don’t have much training in abuse or how to treat perpetrators of any kind. So I think there is a tendency to consider using the word abuse as somehow overreaching, shaming the addict or demonizing the addict. The minute somebody has a deceptive, compartmentalized sexual life, and they’re in an intimate relationship or in a family system. That, in and of itself, is a form of abuse. Is infidelity abuse? It’s abusive in many ways.
First of all, to maintain a deceptive reality, one has to tell all sorts of lies and must, by nature, be dishonest in the relationship. So there are often patterns of lying or lying by omission. There are often partial truths. One of the most abusive aspects is that there’s often a lot of intentional manipulation of the partner’s reality. Which is sometimes referred to as gaslighting. It’s very damaging in terms of eroding and hurting her relationship with her gut instincts.
Impact on Gut Instincts & Erosion of Relationship Integrity
Dr. Minwalla: Usually somebody’s gut instincts can detect that there’s something going on, whether the person becomes conscious of it or not. Usually our gut instincts are somewhat aware. And in terms of gaslighting, if she confronts or brings something up. Then the abuser or the addict intentionally manipulates her away from that truth, and gets her to ignore her gut instincts.
That’s damaging to her gut instincts, which is a very important survival mechanism that we all need. We all need a good relationship with our gut instincts. So, this intentional psychological manipulation of a partner over many years can be extremely damaging to her gut instinct and her ability to use that to make good decisions.
Even just lying in a relationship is abusive. So if you have years and years of lying and maintaining a secret world while pretending to be honest in a relationship or in a family, that in and of itself is damaging. Whether the person knows about the secret sexual world or not.
The fact that there is a deceptive reality is already eroding and hurting the possibility that integrity can even exist in the relationship or in the family. Integrity is a fundamental attribute of a healthy relationship or family. So if somebody chips away or erodes the integrity of that system. The chance for healthy integrity to even exist is corrupted. And then there are also other types of abuses.
For example, is infidelity abuse? Having a secret sexual life diverts attention away from the relationship and away from the family. So there’s a lot of vital energy of nurture and care, love, time, financial resources, emotional resources, sexual attention that’s withdrawn from the relationship and going elsewhere.
Is infidelity abuse? Blaming the Partner: Risks & Consequences
Dr. Minwalla: There can also be a lot of blaming the partner sometimes explicitly. For example, if there’s problems in the relationship or problems with sexuality, the perpetrator might blame her. And make up reasons that she’s either overweight or controlling or unattractive, and those are just lies. The reason those things are happening is that there’s a secret sexual life going on.
It’s also sometimes taking huge risks. For example, someone might not have safe sex, but then come home and have unsafe sex with their partner. So, there are all types of harms that a person potentially engages in, like legal consequences or STDs. Is infidelity abuse? There are many things about having a secret life that are abusive.
Anne: There are, and having lived through it. That’s the best word I have found to describe it, and ignoring that or downplaying it is so dangerous to victims. At the very least, in all cases, he has abused his wife’s trust. It seems appropriate to include the word abuse and what the consequences of his abuse to her have been, like what she has suffered due to his behaviors. From my perspective, that’s the only way we can protect women and help them get to safety.
Dr. Minwalla: Yeah, if you leave the word abuse out, the victims aren’t recognized, because the abuse isn’t being recognized. It is a serious omission.
Therapists’ Role in Recognizing Abuse
Anne: One of the things that an “expert” told me was that the women she sees don’t identify as abused. So when they come in, they wouldn’t describe themselves as abuse victims. And I mentioned to her that I didn’t see that either. For seven years, I was trying to face what was happening in my life head on, not understanding what was happening to me. And so I would not have described it that way at that time.
What would you say to experts or therapists who say she’s not claiming abuse? She’s saying he’s a good guy, and he needs help to get his pornography problem under control.
Dr. Minwalla: In my experience, is infidelity abuse? The minute I use the word abuse and explain it as emotional and psychological. And explain exactly what I mean by that. I have never had a partner or spouse refute that or push that away. Quite the opposite. They usually start becoming very emotional, and often break down and start crying. They feel extremely validated, and they resonate with that term.
Normalization of Infidelity & Blaming the Relationship
Dr. Minwalla: Is infidelity abuse? We as a society don’t view infidelity or cheating as domestic abuse at all. So we’re all in some ways indoctrinated into normalizing that type of abuse. And it is very difficult for people to immediately think of domestic abuse when we’re talking about as cheating or infidelity.
That’s also a big explanation, I think, of why maybe even victims themselves are not used to seeing those types of behaviors or dynamics as domestic abuse. Because we’re all indoctrinated into a sort of perception of normalization. And part of that normalization is that when there is cheating or domestic abuse, people often blame the partner or at least blame the relationship. I’ve had many clinicians and even professionals that I respect immediately go into a, it takes two to tango model.
That somehow, if there is infidelity or cheating or acting out, it must be a sign that there’s something going on in the relationship and blaming the relationship, which means also blaming the intimate partner or spouse. So there’s a lot of biases, there’s a lot of normalization of this type of abuse.
It’s hard for everybody, professionals and victims, to get their head around the idea that this type of behavior is actually a form of domestic abuse. And this would include attitudes, ideas, beliefs, and behaviors that are related to being masculine or male or feminine or female.
Is infidelity abuse? Gender Scripts, Entitlement & Objectification
Dr. Minwalla: Because boys and men learn many unhealthy societal scripts about how to view women. How to view marriage, around sexual entitlement. That they’re entitled to get their needs met at the expense of human rights. And so even men who don’t see themselves necessarily as misogynists have often taken in a lot of these ideas passively just by being in society.
What I found is that many men are taught, and many boys are taught. That one way to increase their gender esteem or their sense of masculinity is to conquer, objectify, and gain the attention of women or girls. We’re all familiar with notches on the bedposts. You know, the more notches you have, the more masculine you are, the more you’re gaining masculine self esteem.
So part of what might be going on is that they temporarily inflate their masculine sense of self worth, not in a healthy way. Very few boys are taught that a secret sexual life is a form of abuse, and cheating is a form of domestic violence. Is infidelity abuse? Having a secret sexual world or life in a partnership or family is immediately a covert form of dominance and control. Because the abuser intentionally withheld information.
That they know that if their partner or family members knew, they would take certain actions to protect themselves. And would respond in a way that advocates for their safety and well-being.
Secret Life as Dominance & Control
Dr. Minwalla: Is infidelity abuse? So intentionally withholding that type of information from somebody is already a form of dominance and control. It can give the abuser control and power by having a secret sexual life that the family, the wife or the partner doesn’t know about. Sometimes, just having that secret life plays a role in providing the abuser with control, power and dominance.
And that might be part of the motivation to maintain, for many years even, a secret world. Sometimes it can be very explicit. I’ve had men tell me in anger that the ability to go and act out gave them a sense of retribution or balance of power. I started recognizing and researching trauma symptoms in the partner or spouse of sex addicts.
And for many years, I felt like I was pushing uphill, an idea that wasn’t well received. And there was a lot of pushback and politics. Around 2011, I started to see a shift where more and more people recognized that partners indeed experience trauma. And so now I see a positive trend towards challenging the codependency models. And replacing those models with a trauma approach in dealing with the spouse of a sex addict.
Shift Towards Trauma Approach & Critique of Codependency Models
Dr. Minwalla: Is infidelity abuse? One concern I have is that among professionals, there seems to be a lack of rigorous understanding of what is actually so damaging about the co-sex addiction model. And why the that and codependency models are actually a form of victim blaming. And why so many partners have been harmed by that. In many ways, it parallels what abusers do defensively.
One common scenario for abusers is that they want to quickly say they’ve learned what they’ve done is wrong. Let’s move on, and let’s put that behind us, and let’s not talk about it. Let’s not reconcile ourselves with what happened. And let’s bury that in the past and move on.
Because there is a movement and a growing number of professionals who have challenged codependency and co-sex addiction. And now we are moving towards a trauma model. Some professionals are quick to jump onto that trend and quickly change words on their website. And say they use a trauma model when they haven’t done that hard work of looking in themselves. And what it was about them that contributed to the harm they may have caused patients.
I think there’s a lack of depth and rigor in that transition for many professionals. That concerns me, primarily because there are still many partners who go for help. And they’re still actually hurt by elements of co-sex addiction.
Is infidelity abuse? Victim Blaming in Clinical Settings
Dr. Minwalla: They’re still having clinical experiences that feel like victim blaming or insensitivity. Is infidelity abuse? I think it’s because professionals say they use a trauma model without fully understanding what that really means. And then, because of that, they still perpetrate a lot of clinical mistakes, and a lot of the old model comes through still.
And a lot of partners feel that many professionals say they use a trauma approach to treat partners. They are actually still using a codependency approach, a co-sex addiction approach, or a hybrid that still hurts partners. And so I think that’s a very serious concern.
Anne: I have that same concern. One professional says he uses the trauma model and wrote recently about me and the things I say on this podcast. He said, “A very dangerous philosophy is spread around that women are merely victims.” And I was thinking, well, we are “merely victims” in this scenario.
Dr. Minwalla: I think people, for many reasons, take a very negative stance towards the word victim. And I think it’s so important clinically to be clear with our language. When there is a violation, when there is abuse, then there is victimization. That’s important for victims to have that named.
And for them to understand that’s different than an agenda of keeping somebody in a victimized state. Or somehow wanting them to own a label that’s stigmatizing. That they should feel burdened by for the rest of their life and prevent healing from happening. Like, that’s not at all what the word victim should mean. But, I feel like many professionals immediately become suspicious or nervous about using the word victim appropriately.
Victim Identity & Healing
Dr. Minwalla: I too have been accused of perpetually keeping partners or wanting to keep partners in a victimized state, which is absolutely not the case.
Anne: Someone at a conference came up to me, and she said, “Your podcast was the first time I actually felt safe enough to define myself as a victim. And until I could do that, I didn’t know what to do to get better.” Because if you somehow think you’re part of the problem, you’re trying to be more loving, more forgiving, and dress sexier. And that’s not the situation. You’ll still be exposed to the abuse and trauma.
Dr. Minwalla: I absolutely agree. Healing really comes from metabolizing reality. Is infidelity abuse? The reality is that there has often been significant abuse, so part of the healing has to be metabolizing that piece of reality. Even among the trend to recognize that partners experience trauma and treat them as trauma victims and survivors. There’s still, even among trauma professionals, a hesitation and misunderstanding on how to clearly name the abuse.
And I think that over time, that’ll change, because they logically have to go hand in hand. If you’re looking at the trauma and understanding it, then the next question is, where is this trauma coming from and what’s causing it? And the minute you ask that question, you have to realize there’s abuse causing the trauma.
It’s not just discovering that there’s a secret sexual world that causes trauma. That’s one type of trauma, but the abuse, such as gaslighting or victim blaming, or years and years of lying and deception, are causing a lot of trauma.
Me Too Movement & Domestic Abuse
Dr. Minwalla: Is infidelity abuse? And so I think over time people will be forced to reckon with the idea. That if we recognize trauma, we have to recognize the abuse, and they go hand in hand. The Me Too movement raised awareness of how men abuse power and see more clearly the role and pervasiveness of sexual entitlement.
What we tend to focus on are the victims in the workplace, which is absolutely essential and legitimate. And that’s actually a great awakening for us to all have. But at the same time, when we expose these men, we’re talking about these workplace violations, I wish we would also consider the intimate partner at home and the children living with their trauma, pain, in silence.
When we look at these cases of high profile men exposed now, whether it’s sexual assault or sexual harassment. Or other forms of inappropriate sexual behavior in the workplace. Most of these men also have wives, or partners, or children, or families. So this means these men engage in all these inappropriate and offending behaviors in the workplace. They’re also engaged in a deceptive compartmentalized sexual world that their families and children don’t know about. And that is, in and of itself, a form of abuse.
Is infidelity abuse? Therapists’ Hesitation to Label Abuse
Dr. Minwalla: Is infidelity abuse? At this time, I still see a lot of well-intentioned trauma therapists who are trying to treat partners and are refusing or timid about using the word abuse. And I don’t think that’s very congruent.
Anne: We are kindred spirits. These same issues have been on my mind, and I’ve talked about them on this podcast. And I’m so grateful for you advocating for victims of abuse in these situations.
Dr. Minwalla: Yes, I think we are kindred spirits and the agenda to get these ideas out more to help not only victims, but also society. So I’m on board with that agenda for sure. Like what is the impact of lies, gaslighting, cover stories, explanations that aren’t true about time and where someone was. They have gut instincts that conflict with what they see around them or see presented.
That can be lies by omission and undetectable types of abuse that are subtle, and it can be years and years of straight up obvious overt lies, gaslighting and manipulations. Whether it’s subtle and hard to detect, or whether it’s pretty overt, pretty extreme, and easy to detect in terms of lies, gaslighting, or victim blaming,
How they relate to other humans, period, and how that shapes the meaning of their life. I kind of describe it as drops of water on a rock. So if their husbands have lied, gaslit, and manipulated them. How does that shape somebody emotionally, their thought system, their sense of self and self-esteem.
Detecting that Something’s Wrong
Dr. Minwalla: Think about specifically the second brain or the enteric system. Neuroscience has identified neurons, brain cells, that literally go from your primary brain to your, what they call the second brain, which is in your gut, in a place called the enteric system.
And part of what it may be responsible for is detecting threats in the environment and sending signals around survival to the primary brain. So it’s a delicate system of being able to detect something’s wrong and then send healthy signals so that the person can make survival attempts and respond accordingly.
It’s like a little antenna, if you will, and a delicate system. If there’s a secret, probably automatically, the human being’s second brain will start to feel threat. It’s going to start to send messages, and now it’s going to be confusing for the brain. Because they’re getting signals, something’s wrong, something’s off, something doesn’t feel right. I feel like I’m somehow threatened.
And the abuser pretends there’s nothing wrong. Is infidelity abuse? They create a situation that’s now confusing, and the primary brain now has to choose. Do I believe my second brain or do I believe my partner and what they’re presenting and putting someone into that forced choice will be damaging.
If that happens for 20 years. That might be 20 years of a person ignoring their survival instincts. And now they have a damaged relationship with their second brain. And that might be way before discovery.
Getting the opposite of what’s needed
Dr. Minwalla: Is infidelity abuse? They’ve already had a very, very crippled relationship and an erosion with their second brain. Then take away their survival instincts and how to support and survive and navigate threats in the environment. It’s like one of the most important psychological functions we have.
Anne: It’s so interesting if they reach out for help, maybe from a couples therapist, for example. Maybe contact clergy to get help, and they get the opposite of the thing they need, instead of saying, “your alarm system is going off.” They say, “Oh, he’s such a good guy. Let’s try to improve your communication.” So even from helping professionals, the injury persists and they’re injured more. But they don’t even know they’re injured.
I can’t stress that enough, because people ask, “Why don’t women get out of abusive relationships?” One answer is, because they don’t know they’re in one. And they’re trying to get help, and the helping professionals aren’t helping them see the abuse. They’re basically enabling the abuse.
Dr. Minwalla: Yes, I think you’re educating me. You referred to helping professionals, but are you saying there’s a common experience of turning to the clergy and getting certain types of feedback?
Anne: Absolutely, our community is interfaith and inter paradigm. So we have agnostic people here and atheist victims. But I’d say the majority of our listeners are religious. And one of the reasons why they’re so traumatized is because they feel like their intuition, or some of them would call it the spirit. They go into clergy for help. And instead of getting help, they are getting abuse from their clergy. I’m not saying clergy is bad necessarily. They just don’t understand what is happening.
Is infidelity abuse? Dangers in Gender based Help
Anne: And so they give the classic religious answers like love, serve and forgive, which is the opposite of what someone would tell a woman if they felt like there was a threat. Is infidelity abuse? They don’t perceive the woman is actually in harm’s way. I’d say that’s across the board in every religion that we see.
Dr. Minwalla: I can validate the dangerousness of that. I find it extremely disturbing what you’re saying. Because first of all, why are women turning to men to respond to deep questions about intimacy, fidelity, and sexuality? With all this unconscious, biased, harmful messaging that boys and men are socialized with and we all suffer for?
And one of the ways we suffer are huge blind spots on sexual entitlement and violence towards girls and women. So just the institutional setup of women turning towards men as if they have something to offer them. I just don’t think it makes sense.
It’s not very logical. It’s not scientifically sound. If you know much about how masculinity is developed and underdeveloped. And where there are real deficits in how masculinity manifests. I just really don’t see how that would be a safe or appropriate setup to have. In general, men advising women on issues that they probably have huge blind spots about.
And then because of those blind spots, they are invariably going to be highly damaging and re-traumatizing to women. And probably perpetrate many types of sexist, misogynistic, and harmful scripts unconsciously, just because they’re the traditional scripts. Deceptive sexuality, it’s a specific type of abuse problem that we would put under the umbrella of gender based violence. Why? Because it’s a type of abuse where gender is going to be a very relevant factor.
Likelihood Of Gendered pattern abuse
Dr. Minwalla: If you’re a girl or woman, you’re probably going to be a victim. Most perpetrators, not all of course, but most perpetrators of having a secret sexual basement are men. So there’s something around gender where the men create the basements, and the women are the victims and finding them. That’s undisputable. And anyone who deals with these issues will see that gendered pattern, at least right now and traditionally.
Is infidelity abuse? We live in a society where nobody calls this type of abuse abuse yet, right? So the idea of having a secret sexual basement doesn’t automatically register as an abuse problem in anyone’s mind. Including professionals, treatment professionals, clergy, nobody thinks a secret sexual basement equals abuse.
So given that reality, why would we turn to the gender that has the problem? And knowing that all institutions and everyone around you don’t see it as abuse yet, why would you then think they have something to offer? I just don’t understand that as making any logical sense. So it’s not to disparage or put down anything related to the clergy or men, it’s just to shine a light on the way we’re socialized as men.
That includes sexual entitlement. It’s a big reason why we don’t call it abuse. There’s an investment in not calling it abuse, because it’s an entitlement that wants to keep being entitled. So there’s a lot of investment in men who have the power, not naming or seeing this clearly as abuse, so that it can continue.
And clergy or anyone, including myself, like who are we as men to get up on pedestals and start preaching about intimacy, sex, and intimate partner abuse?
Humility is important when trying to help abuse victims
Dr. Minwalla: I think most men should start in a place of humility, and that would include getting off a pedestal.
Anne: Amen, is that what I say to that, amen, brother.
Dr. Minwalla: Yeah, hallelujah, like who are these guys? I want to talk to them. Like who are you? There are so many questions that you’re somehow connected to God in a way that we’re not. That you can get on a pedestal and start interfering with people’s abuse situations based on what education? And that you’re so entitled to start preaching, fiddling, and intervening in people’s lives. What pedestal are you standing on? That’s my question to them.
Anne: Yeah, it is a huge problem in every religious community. The thing that I find interesting is that they ask me that same question. Who are you to say these things? And you know what? My response is always I’m an abuse victim, and I represent thousands of abuse victims. To that, I get, well, you don’t know better because you’ve been traumatized. So my trauma has also rendered me illogical, apparently, in their minds. So I just stand up and say, I’m Anne. That’s who I am. I’m Anne.
Dr. Minwalla: Yes. And it’s so important. It’s actually such a global human phenomenon, what you’re talking about, about religion, men, power, and the entitlement in that position. Is infidelity abuse? It’s very dangerous, toxic, yeah. On what basis? I don’t buy it. I will challenge that. I’ve had a lot of clergy that are patients, right? So let’s just pull the robes off and see the truth. None of these men deserve to be standing on any pedestal.
Is infidelity abuse? Clergy & Misguided Forgiveness
Dr. Minwalla: Any true helper is humble. Anyone who’s going to help trauma victims, abuse victims, has to be humble first and foremost. It’s a big part of my training. Humans heal themselves from trauma, therapists don’t. There’s humility in how much you can really intervene and do something.
Anne: In light of this, abusers often feel entitled to receive, many of them from their clergy, immediate forgiveness. And have their victims no longer mention their trauma. They make at least a pretense of apologizing once someone discovers the lies . And this pretense to clergy is very believable. Clergy is like, great, he believes in Jesus. Is infidelity abuse? If an abuser claims he’s repentant or sorry, many times clergy will pressure the wife to forgive.
Dr. Minwalla: It sounds like you said a lot of victims are told to forgive early in the process. Is that right, Anne?
Anne: Yes, yes, they’re being told to forgive. They’re also being told to love and serve, because that is the solution.
Dr. Minwalla: I have three things I’d like to maybe highlight in response to that. The first thing is, it’s not going to work, period. It’s not scientific. If someone has been in a car accident, and they have broken bones, and they’re hemorrhaging. And there are all kinds of injuries. To tell them to just get up, dust off, and keep walking isn’t going to work. So you can say it. You can try to demand it. You’re not going to have success, and the outcomes will be poor.
Premature Forgiveness & Its Consequences
Dr. Minwalla: So the idea of telling an abused spouse to just get over it isn’t going to work. You’re just setting yourself up for a disappointment and a lot of continued trauma and symptoms. Just like somebody in a car accident. Forgiveness is a very advanced, down the road stage of healing that may or may not ever happen. Really, the word doesn’t even need to be brought up for quite a while, since it’s so advanced. And any mention of it is premature, in terms of an expectation of this type of trauma and abuse.
Is infidelity abuse? The other thing is, it’s a demonstration of continuing abusive psychology. When someone tells a victim to get over it and move on. What they’re really communicating is, I want you to collude with me in pretending it’s not going to happen again. They’re basically telling the victim, I don’t care enough about what I did. And implicitly, I don’t care enough about you, and I’m gonna hurt you again. That’s really the message.
It’s a very revealing way to respond to a victim. Whether it’s the clergy saying that, or whoever’s saying that, it’s very revealing. And that’s how I would interpret it as, oh, okay, you want me to join you in skipping over that and pretending like you’re somehow better or the issue’s resolved.
There is no resolution until the perpetrator resolves the issue he has. And then the third thing is. When you have this kind of advice for this type of victim, especially if you have, let’s say in your example, Anne, you’re talking about clergy and the church and institutions.
Continued Domination by Helpers
Dr. Minwalla: These are powerful institutions and people, often male. Is infidelity abuse? So it’s a continuation of dominance, control, power, patronizing, harmful and abusive. All those things. So, to go to help, and then have your helpers continue to dominate, patronize, and try to control you by telling you not to have your reactions. Instead, to suck it up and move on, forgive, or try to somehow manipulate how you’re supposed to be is already a harmful approach for the victim.
So any type of feedback like that, whether it’s clergy, non-clergy, anyone who’s telling a victim to just move on and get over it is really perpetrating on them for all the reasons I just articulated.
Anne: One of the things said, I would say more by clergy than in therapy. But it can happen in therapy. A man can say the victim’s anger, like, that’s the problem. Because he’s repentant apparently, because he said he’s repentant and said he’s never going to do it again. So why is she so angry about it? So they’re actually more concerned with her anger and her, you know, perceived hate of him or whatever. Than they are about the fact that she was victimized.
I’ve been thinking about society too, and the way they demonize women by saying she was angry. Like these angry women or femi-nazis whatever word they use to disenfranchise female anger. And I want women to embrace it. I’m not trying to say they have to feel angry, but it’s such a normal, healthy reaction to being victimized. I’m just so confused why society has decided to disenfranchise women in this way.
Is infidelity abuse? Victim’s Anger & Society’s Response
Dr. Minwalla: Betrayal is high octane anger inducing, just as a normal human reaction. You see it all the time. Victims of deceptive sexuality experience, rage and anger. It’s absolutely normal and should be expected.
Anne: Yeah, I think one of the reasons abusive men have decided that female anger is a problem is that our anger helps us take action. So, abusive men disenfranchise our anger with the intent to stop us from taking action.
Dr. Minwalla: Yes, there’s a reason the anger’s there. Anger can fuel so many positive, health promoting responses. Everything you’re saying is correct. Anger is useful, normal and expected. Now, whenever you have a dominant group that has power over another group. Is infidelity abuse? You often have abuse and forms of harm from the dominant group towards the less powerful group.
Any time in that situation, the victim expresses justified rage, or anger is often used to discredit the victim. Their reactions to the abuse are used to silence and pathologize, and deflect and turn things around. In these situations, let’s say in the clergy, where the abuser’s repentant. And the feedback is, Hey, they’re looking repentant. What’s your problem? You know, making the anger in the victim, the problem. In an abuse situation, right? It’s the behavior, not the words that has any relevance.
Repentance & Behavioral Change
Dr. Minwalla: So, if the abuser says, I repent, the real response should be, let’s see that in your actions. Humility is remorse demonstrated through behavior. And that’s the kind of advice that would be appropriate: you’re repentant, let’s see your remorse in your actions for six months, and then we’ll meet again.
Anne: Yeah, or even you’re repentant. Let’s see how your victim is feeling.
Dr. Minwalla: in six months based on your actions and how you’ve been treating her, right. So those would be the kind of normal, appropriate, helpful responses. Not, look, he’s repentant. What’s your problem?
Anne: Is infidelity abuse? Yeah, the other issue is clergy cannot perceive, and some therapists cannot perceive people lie to them. And groom them, and they can’t perceive this is an act to manipulate the clergy too.
Dr. Minwalla: Oh, so these guys don’t have any training in how to be a clergy person and deal with just normal human life? Isn’t that what they’re supposed to do?
Anne: You would think, but no. We’ve talked to women of all different faiths. When he goes in and says, I feel bad, they literally don’t have on their radar, wait a minute, this is all an act. So that’s another issue, they don’t realize they’re dealing with a wolf in sheep’s clothing. They think they’re dealing with someone who was kind of a wolf, but now look at him. He’s a sheep. Come on, the woman is freaked out and scared, and also like no, no, no.
You don’t understand, but it seems like clergy tend to believe the man over the woman. They just can’t perceive they’re being lied to or being deceived.
Deception in Religious Counseling
Dr. Minwalla: So let’s just think logically. Somebody has a deceptive compartmentalized sexual reality. Is infidelity abuse? So this problem is really about deception. So now you’re going to automatically believe someone coming to you for lying?
Anne: That is exactly what’s happening.
Dr. Minwalla: That doesn’t sound logical to me. You would assume okay, your problem’s lying, then maybe I should be at least somewhat aware that lying might be happening now. Or there might be certain shading of the truth or manipulation right now. So that would be kind of clergy 101.
Anne: Yeah, I hear a lot of stories where the women will say to me, “He met with his pastor, and the pastor told him this.” But her husband might be lying to her about what the pastor said. So a lot of the information that we get is what the addict or abuser says to his victim about what happened in that meeting. So we also don’t know that the pastor did say those awful things. It could be that the pastor didn’t say anything like that, but the abuser decided, Hey, this is how I can get some power here.
I think that’s the heart of it. In these institutions, that’s how they get power, is by being “righteous.” So that’s another level of deception right there. They’re showing up at church and giving talks or doing service to maintain that power, which is super, super scary. I think the religious dudes are like super predators. For religious women, like me, who have been taught through our religion. That part of the way to connect with God and hear God’s voice is by getting counsel from clergy.
Is infidelity abuse? Religious Scripts & Complex Trauma
Anne: So to say, no, I can pray and get answers directly from God. I have the power to do that. I don’t need this man to help me out is really important.
Dr. Minwalla: Yeah, and I think what you’re highlighting, and it’s a challenging topic. Which is how religion can be a form of complex trauma and abuse. And now it’s created a whole set of complicated dynamics, Is infidelity abuse? Where healing requires seeing abuse clearly and emancipating yourself from it. Which ultimately will probably include seeing the abuse of your religion on yourself and emancipating yourself from those parts. And they’re probably just going together.
Anne: Exactly, yeah. So for somebody like me, I’m Christian and devout in my religion, but also feminist. I think the way this is interpreted, or the way people are doing it, is not what Christ intended. So I just form my own ways of interpreting it to live in these two spaces at the same time. I look at Christ and I’m like, he loved women. He was like, always concerned about women. He always made sure he was caring for them.
And the first person that saw him after his resurrection was a woman. To me, I can read the scriptures and interpret them from a feminist perspective .
Dr. Minwalla: Exactly, I appreciate you sharing that. You have a religious identity in a part of you that’s meaningful, and you have a feminist ideology in a part of you that’s extremely meaningful. And you’re not willing to choose one or the other. You’re going to find a resolution and do the work that allows you to be full in, all of you.
Becoming Whole Human Beings
Dr. Minwalla: Wonderful, right? We talk a lot about intersection these days, race, ethnicity, religion, culture, class, you could even put trauma history, right? How did these all intersect, and how do we become whole human beings? And none of us have to deny who we are. The world can make room for who we are.
Anne: After talking about, is infidelity abuse? At the end of our interview, we started chatting about stuff. I started talking about how I don’t want to get married again. My ex was arrested in 2015. The divorce was final in 2017 and I’ve only been on maybe three or four dates since then. And I’m not really interested in it.
I’m also not interested in sex right now. It’s just not very interesting to me. So, Omar and I just kind of chatted a bunch. And we’ll just jump right into where I’m talking about how I don’t care if I never have sex again. If I never have it, that’s fine. I’m okay with that because of the values I’m choosing.
Dr. Minwalla: I think your awareness is healthy, too. There’s a big, large, dominant part of you, overall umbrella that’s fine, adjusted and happy. But you’re also acknowledging just a part of you, right, the sexual part, and that is meaningful to you too. And that’s the part that I think is making you feel whole. That seems healthy. It’s just an acknowledgement that there’s a real choice and navigation that ultimately is fulfilling for you. And sex doesn’t have to be part of that.
Liberation from Marriage Expectations
Dr. Minwalla: And that’s some of the scripting we have to get out of, all these mandates and supposed tos around sex. We talk about gender pathology. Is infidelity abuse? There’s a whole sexual layer there that we never talked about, but there’s a lot of pathology. You could put that religious scripting, shaping someone’s ideas of sex, as a form of complex trauma.
Anne: Well, that’s interesting, because from my faith tradition, we’re Christian, like we actually believe in a Heavenly Father and a Heavenly Mother. And together they are God. So it’s easy for me in my faith to be like, Oh yeah, God is male and female.
So because of that, on earth you’re supposed to find that eternal companion, and you’re supposed to marry them. And you marry them in the temple, and that is like the ideal situation. So if you’re missing your eternal companion here on Earth, then, you know, it’s super sad for you.
And so for me, it’s been so liberating to be like, I actually want that. Like I want an “eternal companion.” That sounds super cool, but I don’t care if I have that person in this life. This life is super short, and we’re all just going to die. So who the heck cares? So in my faith, I’m like the weird single lady who doesn’t want to get married.
And in my faith, that’s weird. Like everyone should want to get married, because that’s the thing to do. But I think that’s similar with all faiths. Now I wear it as a badge of honor, and I’m so excited to tell people I’m divorced. I love telling people I’m single.
Is infidelity abuse? Microaggressions & Female Autonomy
Anne: It’s something that I feel so confident and liberated about. And those types of faith scripting, you’re not a whole person if you’re not married. That’s also what keeps so many victims from getting divorced, in all faiths. Because they feel like, shoot, if I have to get divorced, then who am I? What am I? Because you’re a broken person if you’re divorced or something’s wrong with you.
So lately when any well meaning nice person in Utah, where I live says, Oh, you’re so cute. Why aren’t you married? I literally almost yell at them, but in a nice way. And say, because I don’t want to be. I don’t know if that’s a trauma response or if I’m just enjoying shocking people.
Dr. Minwalla: Is infidelity abuse? Well, one form of complex trauma to our sexuality is this extreme pressure, coercion, and social mandate to be married or else. Forcing a human being into something that’s so life altering against their true will by grooming them and pressuring them. That’s a form of complex trauma, and it’s extremely damaging to pressure them from day one. That if you don’t, something’s wrong with you and you’re not whole is such a crippling, abusive, toxic psychology to impart on a child.
Anne: So this thing happened to me and I’ve been trying to define it and maybe you can help.
Historical Context of Marriage
Anne: So two men in one day said, you’re so cute. Why are you single? And it annoyed me. But the more I thought about it, the more I thought that was a microaggression, but I can’t figure out why. Because to me it felt like my cuteness didn’t count for itself, it had to belong to someone else or it didn’t count. That’s been rattling around in my head. Like, I don’t owe my cuteness to a man. Can’t it just be for myself? I’ve been trying to formulate why it would be a microaggression, and I haven’t been able to put my finger on it.
Dr. Minwalla: The word owned and cuteness is only legitimate if a man owns it. Let’s go to the truth and reality about marriage. And how it actually developed in the human race, which is your wife is property. You own another human for sex, that’s entitlement. It’s part of the institution of marriage. It’s actually the definition of marriage, which is the entitlement to own another human being.
So, now you fast forward, and now you have guys making these comments with the same assumption, which goes all the way back to that. And that’s why it would be a microaggression, because you’re not anyone until you’re owned by a man and now you’re legitimate. And any attractiveness or being cute is for that purpose. It’s awful, toxic, and disgusting that implication.
Conscious Choices & Social Pressure
Dr. Minwalla: I’m really for people making conscious, healthy choices and being informed. And if you are informed and everything’s laid out, and you choose something, I’m all for you. However, I’m against socializing and forcing people into the idea that they should be married or else. I have done a study, a word of mouth study, always asking guys for years, right, two questions. Why did you get married? Why did you have kids?
First of all, the answers are usually always the same. It’s not a wide range of answers. It’s almost like 95 percent of the answers are the same answer. Guess what the answers are.
Anne: Is it because I was supposed to?
Dr. Minwalla: Nope, either I-oh-oh, silence or a shoulder shrug.
Anne: Wow.
Dr. Minwalla: There’s no thought, reason, or voice attached to marrying or having kids. That’s how deep and unconscious just following the script is.
Anne: That is super scary. It reminds me of my across the street neighbor. She wanted to serve a mission for our church. And her boyfriend at the time was like, well, I’m going to marry in the next couple of months. So if you go on a mission, I’ll just have to marry someone else. So she stayed home and married him. And I thought, basically, he said, I don’t care about you at all. All I care about is marrying for whatever reason. And it doesn’t matter who to. That story was so crazy, alarming to me.
Dr. Minwalla: You’re an interchangeable object. Just like a wife traditionally is. It’s a piece of property, so I’ll just buy a new one.
Is infidelity abuse? Following Society’s script
Anne: Yeah, yeah, it was so alarming to me. I was like, oh, how did you guys get engaged? She told that story to me. But she wasn’t super ashamed of it or anything. She was like, oh yeah, it just went down like that. And so then we married, and now they have six kids.
Dr. Minwalla: Yeah, because she’s following the script unconsciously and they’re romanticizing it. And it’s really a symptom of abuse.
Anne: Yeah, it was an alarming story. Is infidelity abuse? I’m 100 percent sure she’s an abuse victim, but she doesn’t know! She doesn’t know. I see it everywhere now, and it freaks me out. It takes me a lot to not just walk up and say, do you know you’re being abused?
Dr. Minwalla: But this is so relevant. Because when you force someone to marry, or force them to have children, it will cause huge amounts of rage. And then we ask ourselves, why so mad? Well, wouldn’t you be mad if someone forced you into marriage and into having kids. And you didn’t even think about it? It wasn’t a choice?
Yeah, it all gets absorbed. Still to this day, right? If you’re single, what’s wrong with you? That’s so insulting, right? So, it’s a very important area that you’re in. There are so many women in religion fighting exactly your battle. And your work is extremely important and needed. I’m such a big supporter of what you’re doing.
Emancipation from abuse is healthy
Dr. Minwalla: Emancipation from abuse is healthy, it’s the definition. of psychological health. So when you get confused in all the trauma and don’t know which way to go, just move towards truth and reality. Those are your best friends. Emancipating yourself from harm and abuse is always a healthy trajectory.
Anne: It was such a wonderful conversation. I’m so grateful for his insights about, is infidelity abuse. You know, when people come on the podcast, we all have different opinions and ways of approaching things. And I appreciate how everyone comes to it from their own experience. Even though we both see the world in maybe some different ways, I appreciate Dr. Minwalla. So I’m so glad that he was able to join me.
I love absolutely everything about this post! Coincidentally (or not) I’m facing a near identical situation in my own marriage. He is not presently living with me, due to serious lying and acting out over this past summer. I’ve been dealing his infidelity off and on for 15 years. All of that to say… thank you for sharing your story so courageously, V. Know that I’m holding you and your son in my heart, in my prayers, and in my deepest admiration.
What an amazing share!
I love the analogy I read a while ago about the Soda Vending Machine. If a person puts 25 cents for a long time in the same vending machine and the vending machine gave him a soda every time he will continue doing that. If suddenly one day the soda is not coming anymore. He might try to use a bill or another coin of 25 cents. If again the machine is not giving him a soda, he might start shaking the vending machine. If nothing happens he might even kick the vending machine.When we first start setting boundaries with an abusive person, there is a lot of pushing and resisting. I have experienced this. When I have held my boundaries, there was more pushing and kicking until it was understood that I would no longer enable the abuse.It is so important to understand what abuse is since I had no boundaries to begin with because I had no idea that I was being abused.
It felt like you held my hand and walked me through it.. especially when u put the”compete” part.. and the chain of regrets that i had.. Not to mention alcohol addiction, ear piercings.. etc.Thank you!!
I’m so glad it was helpful:). You’re brave and strong and you can have the peaceful life you deserve!! Hugs!!
Thank you so much for this information, very helpful!
I’m so glad it was helpful!!
Thank you so much for this incredibly validating podcast. I have been (and remain) in a 36 year marriage with the man I love who is an intimacy anorexic. He has denied me intimacy since our second week of marriage… perhaps we never had true intimacy, but I was 20, vulnerable and obviously ignorant of what it meant to marry a 29 year old after a short romance. I have struggled so much with severe depression, trying to hold it all together, trying harder and harder to do more, be more, love more, serve more, waiting on God, praying and fasting. So many of us, (I dare say the majority), have been failed by the church and have been left feeling unseen, unloved, and uncared for by even God. I am so grateful for you both, BTR, Leslie Vernick, Patrick Doyle, Dr. Sheri Keffer and Dr. Douglas Weiss. Finally, after 36 years, there is a beacon of light shining in the darkness. Because of each of you and your part in bringing God’s love, support and encouragement to spouses and significant others like me, I am feeling real hope that I can continue on my healing journey. Thank you beyond words! ❤️??
I’m so glad you found us! Hugs!
Have you looked in to Aspergers? My husband has just been diagnosed at 64! Couldn’t look in my eyes and had no affection or empathy. Read up on it. You may be in the same boat.
Bingo! Mine was 64!
I’m in a support group for that as well as wives of “addicts” and as I see them in my feed I can’t tell the difference in how the men’s behavior is described. Completely Changed shortly after the wedding and we’d been together several years before getting married. He saw nothing wrong with having a secret sex life outside the marriage. I don’t look like those women so he lost interest early on and just pretended he had ED until I found out when he started working from home a couple years ago. So 15-20 years.
This podcast so perfectly puts into words what I’ve been trying to express to counselors, pastors, well-meaning friends and family for about 14 years. Simply controlling the behavior is only one half of the issue, especially when the acting out has been habitual and continues for long periods of time. I went through years of being accused of not truly forgiving, being vindictive, and even labeled as having a superiority complex, all because I couldn’t just “leave it in the past”. I have never wanted revenge on my partner, but have felt excruciatingly invalidated by every person we went to for help, making true reconciliation and re-building that much more difficult. Thank you so much for putting into words what I have been agonizingly trying to express…perhaps this podcast will be the next step toward true understanding and healing.
I’m so grateful that you found it helpful!
This is so true i love the words you used here…
“felt excruciatingly invalidated by every person we went to for help, making true reconciliation and re-building that much more difficult.”
I can’t even begin to describe the damage done by all the venues of support and help i have tried to talk to and work through from counselors, 12 step programs, the Christian church, and tons of ministries in this field and so many others about the abusive relationship i have had with my husband for 23yrs. He was unfaithful before i met him and was able hide his actions for 17yrs. Everyone i know thinks im crazy and controlling, even manipulative some think im possessed with the spirit of Jezebel lol… even though its really the other way around. ive lost all my friends and relatives bc of his covert abuse and even though i am no longer willing to be a victim and have removed myself and my 4 children from the relationship it is so difficult to find the help i need to heal for me and my kids.
Infidelity is so emotionally abusive. It completely breaks down trust, destroys your sense of worth, and leaves you questioning everything. When someone betrays you like that, it’s not just about the act itself, it’s about the lies, the deceit, and the manipulation that go along with it. It tears apart everything you thought was real and makes healing so much harder. And then, to go to people for help and feel like you’re the one being blamed just adds another layer of pain.
All the programs out there fall into one or more categories… either they want to charge 6k+ to get the coaching/therapy you need to heal or they are free but treat you as if you had some responsibility to the breakdown of the marriage. Many of these venues mean well but are still stuck in a Co-addict or Co-dependent model, even when they say they are using a trauma model.
where can i go to find the support and help i need for me and my family without it costing me my left kidney to do so. One day when i am healthy i am so going to start a ministry to women and children that is free or cost effective for those who’s lives have been destroyed by betrayal, lack of support and misplaced responsibility. This lifestyle breeds poverty and the only ones who can afford to get free are the ones who have access to the finances and means to do so. This is an epidemic in our world and just raising awareness without an affordable solution will not be nearly enough. If there are resources out that i havent found yet please let me know bc i have called and asked so many of them already and in 6yrs have not found one that is affordable. i understand it takes a lot of financial resources but there has to be another way. I am tenacious enough that i will do whatever i have to heal but not at the cost of my kids or selling myself to work as a single mom 60+ hrs to afford it. 12 step programs were started out of this need but they are still using the co-addict/co-dependent model even in programs like SA-ANON (Sexaholics Anonymous).
I am new to this sight so i know there may be resources here i have not discovered yet but if there is could you please post the links here so i can look into them. I really need resources for my kids too as the effect of their fathers betrayal has spilled over to them as well and 3/4 of my kids have accessed inappropriate material as a result as well and bc my husbands venue of choice we are not safe to be in relationship to him in any form so i honestly need legal resources as well.
thanks so very much for your bravery and boldness in sharing this information. it will forever be a huge part of my recovery journey.
Thank you for this. The sad thing is some people cannot afford the help they need. I’m in this situation myself. Also, in some areas (like the one I live in) don’t have anyone trained for betrayal trauma and ptsd. My husband keeps saying “This is not getting any better.” It’s been 16 months since discovery for us. I told him “No, it’s not getting any better because I’m not getting the professional help I need.” He thinks that comforting me and telling me he’s sorry is going to make this all go away. I don’t understand him. He’s read many books on sexual betrayal trauma and says he understands what I’m going through but then makes comments like the one above. I’m not sure what to do. I’m in desperate need of help but can’t afford it, plus there’s no one in my area. Any advice or suggestions please?
Thank you!
This is the first time I have felt completely validated and like you got it – all the pain, struggle and abuse from not only my ex husband and what he put me through for 17 years, but what his family continues to do because they cannot accept the reality of the situation. I believe those who cannot accept this as true and valid have never experienced it. Access to online exploitative material continues to grow and I believe that I am a part of the first wave of victims being revealed. The waves behind me will be even greater. I’m so grateful to your work and the peace and comfort it has given me.
I’m so glad it’s helpful! It’s so hard when people don’t see it for what it is . . . You’re beautiful and this is your home:).
Very validating thank you, thank you, thank you.
I’m so glad it’s helpful!
This was very validating. Thank you
Thank you for this. I have been going through the slow process of discovery of my soon-to-be-ex husband’s online infidelity and extra-marital affair and have been dealing with the fallout of betrayal trauma for almost a year now. I can relate to everything said in this Podcast, and have been waiting for a professional in the field to adequately give a name to the experiences I’ve undergone. I keep saying to myself that I feel like I’ve been in an abusive marriage, and you just clarified, that, yes, I have. I really hope this label sticks in the profession, because it’s so accurate of a description (from a victim’s perspective). I also hope that legislation, law enforcement, etc. soon adopts this form of domestic abuse as something victim’s can seek legal help for.
Thank you! I’m so glad you find it helpful.
Wow! I was gaslit for 27 years. Finally I kicked out my husband and I didn’t know why. Slowly the truth came out. It was painful but validating to know I wasn’t crazy all those years. Finally I divorced him and now I am married to a normal guy. I would encourage everybody to muster up the strength to leave. The problem won’t go away.
Thanks so much for sharing!
I agree—the problem (the abuser) will not go away. An excellent book is LEAVE A CHEATER GAIN A LIFE by Tracy Schorn
Thanks for the heads up on these resources for women in abusive relationships!
You’ve described my husband perfectly. But don’t forget the flat out lying. He’d lie to cover up. He’d lie and blame shift onto me. He’d lie and make excuses to try and justify his behavior. He even lied to his therapist. These men surely do express a form of sociopathy. Only when ‘the victim’ realizes that it’s not her, it was never her, and it never will be her problem, will she heal.
Thank you so much for sharing.
Anne, THANK YOU for this! I’m currently in a difficult place in my head …my husband is 67 and we’ve been married nearly 40 years (I was a naive baby bride of 17). He has had an addiction for about 55 years. He’s been in counseling and recovery groups for about 10 years. We went through a year-long therapeutic separation for his infidelity. Afterward, it seemed for the first time he was in REAL recovery. However, I recently made a new discovery after several months of having him back home. I am devastated and feel like this is the most traumatized I’ve been throughout this process, even though the behavior wasn’t nearly as “bad” as what he had been doing for so long. I think it’s the lying and hiding while insisting and acting like he’s sober for the first time that has made this discovery so much worse.
When I first found out about his infidelity, I searched endlessly for a therapist who specialized in it because I thought that would make a difference. When we finally found one and started going, it felt like it was only making things worse. He would sit there and say all the right things to the therapist, and I would just sit there feeling crazy because I knew deep down something was still off. I kept thinking it would help, but honestly, it just felt like more of the same—him hiding things and me feeling stuck. I know you understand the depth of pain, sorrow, and overpowering anger.
I haven’t even been able to really pray. I feel like there is just no hope that we’ll ever have a real, connected relationship. But because of illness and tight finances, I also feel stuck in this marriage. I feel myself sinking. What you shared resonated deeply with me as I do feel like a widow of sorts, and identify with the “wife who married young only to be rejected.” I will be listening to your podcast from now on!
Rhonda, I’m so glad it was helpful! God bless you:).
I too, like you, married just out of high school and was very naive. He was going to be my “knight in shining armor.” One year into our marriage I discovered some gross magazines in my husband’s briefcase. I was devastated. Over the next 44 years I would find other evidences of his misconduct and infidelity, and when I would confront him he would always deny everything. I felt guilty for my suspicions and wanted so badly to believe he was telling me the truth, but the evidence proved otherwise. After the first discovery, I began the downward spiral that the “fear of rejection” can catapult one into. I developed such habits like hyper-vigilance by looking for evidence of any ‘misbehavior.’ I hated the person I was becoming.
I wanted so badly to fix our marriage and find answers, so I started searching for an infidelity therapist who could help us. When I finally found one, I really thought it would save us. I convinced him to go, and I went in with so much hope, but honestly, it made things worse. The therapist just didn’t understand what I was going through, and it felt like everything was somehow being turned around on me. I left every session feeling more confused and even more broken. I didn’t know where else to turn, and I started to feel like maybe I was the problem.
Over the years I began to isolate myself from friends, family, and even shunned the fellowship of women’s church groups, etc. in order to ‘monitor’ my husband’s behaviors—only to later realize that whenever I was in the hospital for numerous surgeries, he would use those times to indulge and ‘act out.’ Needless to say, after years of mistrust, lies, deceptions, and gaslighting, I came to an emotional crisis about 15 years ago. I found myself feeling angry and bitter as I began to realize that this was my true reality and he wasn’t going to stop doing the things that brought me so much pain. His compulsive (and quite possibly ‘addictive’) behaviors and infidelity has, quite frankly, cut me to the core and left me feeling hopeless and lifeless.
Then one day, I stumbled across a BTR.ORG article talking about “betrayal trauma.” LIGHTBULB! I was finally able to give my years of torment and pain a face and a name. Omg! You mean there are other women out there suffering with the same symptoms of PTSD as me? What a blessing it has been to know that I am not alone in this scenario of life. You are NOT alone! And anyone else reading this…YOU ARE NOT ALONE! I can’t believe I spent all that money on therapists who only made it worse! Still, I am deeply grateful I found BTR when I did. Although loneliness knocks constantly at my door, for me it is better than being in an emotionally and psychologically abusive toxic environment. I pray courage, wisdom, peace, and healing to all the other women out there who need it!
I’m so glad you found us!
I am just now hearing this. Big hugs to you Anne. You can always see straight through the nonsense.
Thanks!
I just found out my fiance is lying to me. I think he cheated and I’ve been trying to track down evidence, but sometimes I think I might be jumping to conclusions. But after finding BTR, I’m starting to wonder if it’s not just infidelity…
Dear Anne, Dr Minwalla and the BTR team,
Thank you for this absolutely fantastic podcast. It is the most validating and helpful interview I have ever heard on this subject. I replay it often whenever I get caught in the repetitive loops of self blame and doubt.
My story, like so many others, is one of a long-term relationship (17 years) most of which I was unaware of his secret double life. I only became aware in the last 5 years and went through a living hell trying to understand what was happening; if I was safe and/or if I was to blame (as he told me I was), for both his acting out behaviors as well as his daily dishonesty.
He once told me that I was easier to control when I was “unwell” and also that him knowing I didn’t want him to do “it” made him want to do it more. This fits so much with the abusive and integrity components spoken of in this podcast.
20 months ago he actually ended our relationship right out of the blue in the midst of a luxury exotic holiday. He is now with a Thai woman he met at one of the local Thai massage parlors he frequented. She barely speaks English. He posts photos on Facebook with her on their exotic holidays and looks to be so happy. I have literally been replaced, traded in like an old car that can’t be repaired as I was told. It is beyond horrific and I have been so traumatized by it all.
All our professional colleagues see him as an immaculately behaved, highly educated, articulate, intelligent professional at the top of our field worldwide (which he is) and would never believe what he is capable of or how he has treated me.
Only our therapists would be able to validate some of this because of what they witnessed first hand. Part of the problem is that he never agreed with the diagnosis, wouldn’t enter treatment, or take responsibility for his actions.
I tried far too hard, for far too long, turning myself inside out, compromising my own values, believing our relationship could be saved and putting up with appalling treatment that has almost cost me my life.
I fell for all the sweet talk, love notes, dishonest promises, gifts, flowers, luxury holidays and meals over and over. But it was all just very sophisticated grooming. I should have walked away and saved myself much earlier.
Infidelity is so much more than just betrayal. It’s emotional abuse. The constant dishonesty, manipulation, and gaslighting shatters you from the inside out. It’s not just about the cheating—it’s about how it breaks your sense of self, your confidence, your ability to trust, your whole reality. Being lied to for so long makes you question everything, including your own sanity. People don’t talk enough about the emotional destruction this causes, and it’s so validating to hear someone finally address it.
Anyway, now I am set free from it all by his decision and am working to rebuild my shattered self and life. He hasn’t even said sorry for it all or shown genuine remorse. Only justifications and rationalizations mostly to do with my “over reactions, unhappiness and neediness.”
Thank you again so very much for this excellent interview and for all the wonderful work you do to help betrayed partners. I am truly grateful.
Jane, I’m so glad you found it helpful. I’m so sorry for all that you’re going through! We’re here for you:).
O>my gosh! You just nailed it! Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I’m so thankful for people who are willing to call it what it is!!!!!!!! So much damage is done to the innocent party! And shame, shame on those who try to minimalize it!!!!! I don’t care who says “Well, I don’t agree with you that it’s abuse…you are supposed to walk in forgive ess, blah, blah, blah! Such ignorance in the church! Men who commit infidelity have forced a broken marriage covenant upon the innocent one!!!
It’s amazing I found this today. I can’t begin to verbalize my horror story right now, but validation came through this find. Thank you!!
I’m so glad you found us! Being married to a man who is abusive to his wife thorugh infidelity is horrific. Hugs!
Thank you ! This podcast validated my story. Yes my husband was deeply embedded into online infidelity and exploiting women, as a result I was abused and victimized.
These were words I need to hear. I finally separated and divorced after 29 agonizing years of wondering what was wrong with me AND being questioned by therapists as to what role I played in the demise of the marriage.
HUH !?
I’m so glad you found us! I’m proud of you set boundaries.
thank u so much..
You’re welcome! So many people don’t know that infidelity is an abuse issue. That it’s emotionally abusive and psychologically abusive, and that when a man doesn’t tell his wife about his online infidelity it constitutes coercion. I’m so glad you found this to be helpful.
Thank you a million times for this. I felt for several years that something was wrong. Finally I left with my children, after almost 27 years of marriage. He never admitted to infidelity, but wouldn’t even sleep in the same room with me for about 5 years. I had a chance to move back near my parents and took it. 6 month later I learned that his girlfriend of several years had moved in with him. I asked why he wouldn’t just ask for a divorce. He wouldn’t give a reason, but I’ve realized that it was because in me he had a cook, housekeeper, and babysitter (including for our disabled son). He got to spend weekends with his mistress while I kept things running. It’s been 3 months since D-day, I’ve filed for divorce, and I am slowly processing the terrible trauma. The years of gaslighting, lying, and rejection really took their toll, but I’m learning to stand on my own and to realize this was his problem, not mine. He shows no remorse, and because our youngest is only 10 and we share custody I still have to have contact with him. That makes the recovery far more difficult. But I am beyond grateful for resources like this–for women who understand the complete devastation that infidelity and lies causes.
I’m so sorry for everything you’ve been through, but grateful you found us! Welcome!
Wow. No one, and I mean no one, not our therapist, NO ONE!!! has ever explained what is going on more perfectly than this. I wish I would have found BTR sooner!!!
I feel so validated by this podcast. I am a victim of emotional abuse. The addiction is drugs. It doesn’t matter what is used, drugs, physical violence, food, infidelity, anything can be used for addiction to apply what is spoken of in this podcast. i just can’t believe it.
I have spent the last 15 years trying to figure it all out. He has been addicted to drugs the entire time, so he is a functional drug addict. Since there is no “major” issue, why is there a problem? Right? Well, it’s the same stuff just a different vice. I have to be controlled. The gaslighting has about killed me to the point of insanity. No matter where i turned, 12 step, counseling, faith, it was the same thing: you have a choice. Well what choice do i have if i don’t even know what is going on??
I was in a fog of cognitive dissonance which was overwhelmingly unsettling, painful and the ultimate crazy making. From church books on loving him out of abuse, to being beneath a man, to you can’t divorce, it’s a sin…to counseling… it’s your fault you are enabling… to a 12 step for codependence where I had to admit it was my issue for wanting to fix a problem…just saying this is traumatizing. No one ever said I was a victim. In fact, it was my choices which caused it, apparently. No matter what I protested I was told it was my issue and my choice. How could I grow if I didn’t even know what my issue was or couldn’t see it … I couldn’t’ see it because I wasn’t doing it.
What ended up happening is i played right into the hands of the abuse setting the situation even stronger for gaslighting. I had to completely abandon myself. It reached the point where there was no hope… no outcome would end well based on any of these models. I spent hours of time and shame and guilt and money on blaming myself for someone’s behavior. Infidelity especially felt like a knife in my back. I asked so many times, “Isn’t this abuse too? To lie, to cheat, to betray so deeply?” It crushed my soul. But no one ever seemed to take it seriously, like it’s not as bad as other things. But for me, it was devastating. I even asked if I had gotten a black eye would it be abuse and I am a victim? or would it be my choice and fault because I chose to be there? No one likes this question. The cognitive dissonance created from the erroneous models were actually more devastating to me because it kept me in a loop of not being able to decide because I never knew what was wrong. I literally felt my mind was exploding. No matter how hard I worked and tried. This podcast explains this point… which is a summary of my experience. I can’t heal what I don’t know. Healing comes from metabolizing reality. The reality in these cases is that there has usually been significant victimization and abuse. Part of the healing has to be reconciling and metabolizing reality. If that piece of reality is being ignored, it will be very hard to heal. Thank you for this podcast. I made a donation as a sign of my gratitude. You have no idea. Thank you.
You’re welcome! I’m so glad we’ve been helpful to you!
This episode felt like sitting sitting in on your personal therapy session with Dr. Minwalla, which was fun.
As an evangelical, I often find myself defending singleness and fighting against assumption marriage is somehow necessary or better, when the Bible clearly teaches it was not, and I can easily argue using 1 Cor 7 or the examples of Jesus and Paul.
I happened to go down the rabbit hole recently of researching LDS beliefs on marriage and singleness, and came away struck with how incredibly difficult it must be for singles, especially women, because LDS teaches you can’t even achieve the highest status in eternity if you’re unmarried. I can’t even imagine how difficult it would be to defend the decision to be single within LDS circles, much less defend divorce when it means liberation from abuse. I’m glad you’re a voice of truth to women who may have been told they have to tolerate abuse to experience eternal bliss.
Thanks, Martha! Your support means a lot:). Hugs:).
I read Dr. Minwalla’s paper back in Jan\Feb. 2021. It was a eye opening, sky punching, YES moment for me. I would like to say that these blogs and casts have been informative and sanity saving. Thank you from the bottom of my badly neglected heart.
This is just what I needed to hear to stay strong! Thank you for this amazing website!
I have been looking for help. I found out my husband is doing unspeakable things online in June. He was also talking to some lady in Poland. I found out one night when I caught him talking to her and it all blew up. He tried to manipulate me by threatening to kill himself. The dr’s put him on antidepressant. We have not had couples therapy, but individual therapy. He doesn’t do online infidelity anymore. I’m 100 sure of this. We’ve started church, but it’s just not what I need. He doesn’t want to talk about it any more. I’m still hurting!!
Have you considered that the issue is that you’re being emotionally and psychologically abused? We recommend that women in your situation attend our daily BTR Group Sessions for betrayal trauma. We’d love to see you in a session today.
It is so difficult for women who are not in marriage. When an emotionally abusive relationship ends, often abruptly they have very little protection in law.
As you say, if the property is in the mans name, the woman can end up being evicted after an abusive relationship. In a healthy relationship a couple can work through things at the end of a relationship, not so in an emotionally abusive controlling situation.
I wish I would have read this article before 6 painful years of infidelity therapy! I tried so hard to do everything the therapist said. 6 years later, everything is worse. Thank you so much for this, I just wish a would have found BTR sooner.
This podcast episode reminds me of this excerpt, in chapter 2 of “Becoming the One” by Sheleana Aiyana.
“While their history isn’t well known to many of us, spinsters are cultural icons. The term originates as early as the 1300s, referring to unmarried women who spun wool and earned their own living. By the 1800s, being a spinster was a secret source of pride: it was a privilege for a woman to remain unmarried in a time when the majority of women were economically bound to men. Overtime, in true patriarchal fashion, the word became distorted and spinster carried a negative connotation. But in fact, these women who lived the lives of autonomy and independence were powerful. It was the spinsters who, by fate or fortune, carved their own destiny and made the decision to remain single rather than marry out of necessity, and if they did decide to wed, they would settle for nothing less than true fulfilling partnership.”
Anne I think you’re on the right track! Just a couple of powerful women choosing not to get married, living in Utah 🙂
Wow. Finding these podcasts and Dr. Minwalla – this is the deepest most thorough recognition I have felt since discovery. Thank you so much.
I really needed this right now. Thank you.
Hello here I’m testifying on how this great marriage helper restore my marriage back after separation. email successfulcenter33@gmail.com. his WhatsApp +2349137446738. Thanks sir.