When a woman has been betrayed and abused, she may find herself feeling confused and afraid. She may feel unsafe in her relationship and, sometimes, even in her own home. At some point, it may become necessary for her to set a boundary that requires separating from her husband.

But what if she isn’t ready for an out-of-home separation? What should she do then?

Anne, founder of Betrayal Trauma Recovery, and her friend, Lindsey, a fellow Shero, talk about the reasons for choosing an in-home separation and why she ended up doing an out-of-home separation.

5 Reasons To Consider An In-Home Separation

Anne has talked to many women over the years who have found that separation has been necessary for their healing. Some of them have chosen to do in-home separations. Lindsey is one of those friends.

“Separation is a really important boundary that some women use to establish safety.” -Anne, Founder at Betrayal Trauma Recovery.

What exactly is an in-home separation?

An in-home separation may look different for each couple. For some there may be very strict separation, for others, it may be a little more relaxed. A lot of it depends on how safe the woman feels and how much space she needs to get there.

Why should you think about an in-home separation? There are many reasons to consider an in-home separation.

5 Reasons To Consider An In-Home Separation

  1. To maintain safety.
  2. To prevent financial strain.
  3. To preserve the family situation.
  4. To gain clarity.
  5. To observe behavior.

These are just a few reasons to consider an in-home separation as opposed to an out-of-home separation, there could be many other personal reasons to consider one.

In-Home Separation Can Help Maintain Safety

Sometimes a woman may need to implement an in-home separation boundary to maintain her safety.

Lindsey had felt uneasy for a little while. Then, she found out that her husband had been lying to her again.

“I knew I felt unsafe and I knew that something needed to change. It was almost a month between me knowing that there was dishonesty happening and me coming to the conclusion that an in-home separation was the boundary that I wanted to move forward with. Mostly because I just didn’t know what to do.” -Lindsey, Shero

It wasn’t an easy decision for her to make and it wasn’t just the lying that led to it. There were other behaviors that she had noticed that left her feeling unsafe.

“Obviously, the lying is abuse, in and of itself. But, for me, it was just these little red flags of things like not seeing him go to group, or he hasn’t gone to a group in a couple of weeks, or his therapy has been spotty.” -Lindsey, Shero

Lindsey already had boundaries in place, and she’d been enforcing them, but this was a big step for her.

For her, she needed the physical separation. She needed a space to call her own where she could go to find peace and clarity while she decided if she wanted to take further action.

Temporarily, she went very low contact with her husband, claiming their bedroom as her own as he moved into a room in the basement. Mostly, she only saw and spoke to him in the evening, at dinner with the kids.

“I would pretty much say, ‘Okay, text me if you’re going to walk through the upstairs so I know that you’re walking through the upstairs.’” -Lindsey, Shero

For Lindsey, the physical separation helped her feel a little safer in her own home.

In-Home Separation Can Prevent Financial Strain

Some women choose to do an in-home separation to prevent straining the family’s finances. This concerned Lindsey too.

“I felt a lot of unease around asking for the out-of-home separation simply for the financial aspect of it.” -Lindsey, Shero

With she and her husband in the same home, for the time being, they wouldn’t have the extra expense of paying for another living space, additional food, etcetera.

This is a concern for a lot of women, especially if their husbands have not been able to keep a job or they have a very tight budget.

An in-home separation is an inexpensive alternative in these cases.

In-Home Separation Can Help Preserve The Family Situation

Like preventing a financial strain on the family, in-home separation can be a good alternative if separation is needed, but the family situation is complicated or highly dependent on both parents being in the home.

For example, if a child has medical needs that requires a caregiver always be present, if both parents work opposite schedules and daycare is too expensive, or there is a lot of coordinating to do throughout the day that requires both parents.

There are also other situations that have not been mentioned that might warrant opting to do an in-home separation as opposed to an out-of-home separation.

In Lindsey’s case, her husband is actually pretty good with the kids.

“In general, he’s a good dad. His behaviors, generally, are pretty ‘okay.’” -Lindsey, Shero

Many abusers, however, are “generally” “good” guys, that doesn’t make them emotionally safe. At the time, Lindsey felt she could maintain her safety with him in the home.

In-Home Separation Can Help You Gain Clarity

Many women are able to gain some clarity while their husband is still living in the home, but in a separate bedroom. The safety and peace they find in their own space helps with this.

Lindsey was able to find some safety and some peace again. She was able to realize that she’d made a good decision to implement an in-home separation, but she still needed to decide if it was enough.

After a lot of meditating and talking it through with friends, she decided that she needed to take another step and set a new boundary.

“At that point, that was actually the first time that I had ever considered the reality or possible reality of an out-of-home separation, and that scared me. It terrified me.” -Lindsey, Shero

It had been a year since they started the in-home separation and she was still seeing red flags.

In-Home Separation Can Give You A Chance To Observe Behavior

Lindsey had been noticing some things about her husband’s behavior that caused her to feel uneasy again.

Then, a conversation she had with her husband got her considering an out-of-home separation and, soon after, she found out he’d been lying again and that made her unsafe.

“The lying is just not an okay foundation for any relationship because, if he’s lying about this, who knows what else he could be lying about. Yes, on the surface of the things seem to be okay, but who knows.” -Lindsey, Shero

The space she’d put between herself and her husband in their home had helped her put the relationship and his behavior in perspective. She’d been able to consider options and she’d decided.

Lindsey decided it was time for an out-of-home separation.

What To Do When An In-Home Separation Isn’t Keeping You Safe Anymore?

Lindsey had to make a choice, and she’d made it. Her husband wasn’t doing the work necessary to change his behavior and become a safe person.

The decision she’d made hadn’t been easy.

In fact, it was scary and difficult. There were so many things to worry about.

She would be home with the kids by herself.

Sometimes, she’d be home all by herself.

The added expense of a place for her husband to live.

When would he see the kids?

How often would he be at the house?

The questions went on, but she felt like she’d made the best decision for herself and her family.

Lindsey did come up with a solution to one of the issues. She talked to her husband and they decided that he would earn the extra money to pay for the place where he would live.

“It could be temporary, and if it is temporary and he does end up moving back in and we end up reconciling and our relationship moves forward in a healthy way, it’s not going to impact us negatively, in terms of our financial future.” -Lindsey, Shero

Lindsey’s hope was that her husband would finally take accountability for his choices and step up and do the work to make himself safe enough to come back home.

Like most women, she believes her husband can change, if he wants to, but she wants that change to come from him, not from her. She wanted the change to be sincere, not just something he did to keep her placated.

Lindsey has been paying attention to her husband’s behavior and attitude towards her and his recovery. She’s been watching for the signs that he’s changing.

Though she doesn’t feel 100% safer with him out of the house, because she is there with the kids without him, she does feel more peace. When she feels he’s taking the right steps and his attitude is in the right place, she’ll consider letting him back in the home.

Until then, she’s continuing to work on her own recovery and reaching out when she feels lonely and isolated.

Many family members and some friends do not understand why Lindsey and her husband are separated. He isn’t physically abusive, so they’re confused about her feeling unsafe with him. She’s had to come to terms with not feeling like she has to justify her decision to everyone.

“It’s still something that’s hard to describe to somebody who hasn’t experienced it themselves. For me, one of my personal boundaries for myself has been to say, ‘It’s okay for me to not be able to describe to somebody what I’m feeling.’ That’s okay, and it doesn’t mean that my feelings are unjustified.” -Lindsey, Shero

Anne knows that this decision wasn’t easy for Lindsey. They are personal friends and Lindsey reached out to her during the decision-making process.

“Having them stay in the home feels unsafe because they’re lying to you and using porn. It feels uncomfortable and it’s against your value system. On the other hand, you’re having your children’s dad move out, along with the financial and emotional ramifications that this might cause, and the fact that this could result in divorce, which you don’t want, feels unsafe too. It’s like which ‘unsafe’ scenario do I choose and why? The decision is very complex. It’s not easy at all.” -Anne, Founder at Betrayal Trauma Recovery

Betrayal Trauma Recovery wants all women who have been betrayed and abused to make the right decisions for them to be able to find safety.

If you are stuck and not sure what the next right step is for you, Betrayal Trauma Recovery offers Individual Sessions with a Certified Betrayal Trauma Specialist. Each coach has personal experience with betrayal trauma and has gone through extensive training to be able to help you find your strengths and determine the best healing path for you. The first step on that path is to help you find safety the best way you can.

Full Transcript:

Welcome to Betrayal Trauma Recovery, this is Anne.

Lindsey, my friend, is back again to talk about separation. Separation is a really important boundary that some women use to establish safety. Lindsey has done both an in-home separation and now a separation out of her home. She is going to talk about her experience.

Can you tell us why you felt unsafe in your own home?

Lindsey: Pretty early on, when I started doing my own recovery, I learned how important it was to me to have my husband both working recovery, in a way that I could see—so he needed to share with me what he was doing or going to meetings and various other things—and then, also, that he needed to be honest with me.

The honesty has been a real sticking point in our relationship. When he went through another repeated experience where he had gone through two months of acting out behavior without disclosing it to me, that’s when I felt unsafe and I knew I needed to change something.

Anne: Did you feel unsafe before you found out he was lying to you or was there something in your gut that you knew was wrong and you just didn’t have “evidence” until you found out?

Lindsey: I definitely felt uneasy, that’s for sure, and I knew that I wasn’t seeing the recovery behaviors. He wasn’t communicating with me, so I knew that something was up. But, until I really had the direct evidence, I didn’t want to move forward. It was only a matter of months and I don’t move that quickly with making boundaries. It takes me a while.

An In-Home Separation Can Allow Time For Decisions

Anne: Once you determined that you felt unsafe and that your husband’s behaviors were unsafe, mainly that he had been lying to you, why did you choose an in-home separation for your boundary, at that time?

Lindsey: At that time, I knew I felt unsafe and I knew that something needed to change. It was almost a month between me knowing that there was dishonesty happening and me coming to the conclusion that an in-home separation was the boundary that I wanted to move forward with. Mostly because I just didn’t know what to do.

I was totally at a loss, but I happened to go to a retreat within that months’ time. It was the SAL Women’s retreat and, while I was there, I had some really amazing experiences with meditation that helped me come to the conclusion that I really needed to have safety within my home and I needed to have a place in my home that could be my safe place. For me, the easiest way that I could envision that happening was to have an in-home separation where I could have my bedroom be that safe place.

Anne: Let’s talk about safety for a minute. A lot of women listening might think, “Okay, he was lying to you, so you felt unsafe,” but was there any other evidence that felt unsafe? Which there doesn’t need to be, but I want to talk about this because a lot of women think, “Well he’s not yelling at me, he’s not punching walls, he’s not screaming in my face, so I’m safe.”

When, emotionally, they might not be safe because they’re trusting someone or they’re interacting with someone who’s lying to their face. Talk about how you came to realize that you deserved more than just “well, he’s not yelling at me.”

Lindsey: In my relationship with my husband, this is definitely the case. My husband is, in a lot of respects, a good husband and a good father to my children. He’s respectful, he helps around the house, he does all the right things, on the surface.

He’s not manipulative or abusive verbally, in some ways—in that he doesn’t try to put me down or other ways that I’ve seen in other people’s relationships. Obviously, the lying is abuse, in and of itself. But, for me, it was just these little red flags of things like not seeing him go to group, or he hasn’t gone to a group in a couple of weeks, or his therapy has been spotty.

All these little things that say to me something is off. Each one of those isn’t totally wrong, but when you look at the big picture, and you look at all these little red flags that are coming up and he’s not communicating with me, he’s not telling me what he’s thinking and what is going on in his recovery, that, to me, becomes a red flag that says, “Something is probably off in terms of his sobriety, in terms of his recovery.”

Anne: At the time, when you’re telling your family, “I don’t feel safe. I’m going to have an in-home separation” were they like, “Why don’t you feel safe? I’m confused, what is he doing?”

In-Home Separations Are A Boundary

Lindsey: Yes, absolutely. Honestly, even to this day, it’s something I’m not sure I have words to capture exactly what it means. Which is hard because, in a certain sense, you want to feel justified when you’re talking to your family or when you’re talking to your friends about the actions that you’re taking, so that’s a struggle.

It’s kind of a back and forth, continuing conversation with my parents, with my siblings, with other people who are aware of what’s going. It’s trying to share with them how I’m feeling, and, when I do come across podcasts or if I come across a quote from some recovery materials that I feel captures what I’m feeling, I’m more inclined to share that with them to help communicate, but it’s hard.

Anne: Do you feel like you’re better at communicating how you feel now, than when you first started the in-home separation?

Lindsey: Yes and no. In some ways, obviously, I’ve definitely grown in my recovery and read more, listened to more, gone to more things. In other ways, no, because it’s still something that’s hard to describe to somebody who hasn’t experienced it themselves.

For me, one of my personal boundaries for myself has been to say, “It’s okay for me to not be able to describe to somebody what I’m feeling.” That’s okay, and it doesn’t mean that my feelings are unjustified.

Anne: Both that, and then also, “It’s okay that I can’t explain all my reasons why I feel unsafe, but my decision to set a boundary is justified. I don’t have to justify it to other people.”

Lindsey: Right.

Anne: It’s okay, it’s just a tough position to be in. Okay, so you were doing an in-house separation for how long?

Lindsey: About a year.

Anne: During that time, you didn’t necessarily see his healthy behaviors improve?

Lindsey: I did for a time. He had a lot of external factors in his life change, so, for a period of time, he was doing really well.

Anne: And it felt different to you?

An In-Home Separation Can Be An Option For Safety

Lindsey: It felt different. He was consistently going to a 12-Step meeting. He was consistently meeting with a therapist. He was consistently doing 12-Step work and sharing it with me, not that I would always read it, but I knew that it was happening, and just regularly sharing with me where he was at. For a time, things were feeling better.

Anne: Let’s pretend, and I really mean pretend, for just a moment that, in order to change your abusive behaviors there’s no such thing as a 12-Step group, there’s no such thing as therapy, there’s nothing. All there is, is the changing behaviors themselves, let’s just pretend that for one second. Would you say his behaviors toward you and how that felt were improved? Or was it just he was going to group?

Lindsey: It actually reminds me of some conversations I’ve had with other women, who talk about being able to tell the difference between when their husband is acting out and when he’s not. For me, personally, I have not been able to tell.

Now that doesn’t mean that’s on him or it’s on me. I’m pretty unobservant, as a person generally. I just know that about myself and it’s one area where I have had to ask things of my husband accordingly because I’m unobservant. I’d say, “If you don’t tell me about what you’re doing, don’t just assume that I’ve noticed it because I don’t notice things very easily.”

There’s definitely that playing into it, but it’s also I don’t know that he was acting that differently simply because, in general, he’s a good husband and a good dad. His behaviors, generally, are pretty “okay.”

Anne: “Reasonable” or “healthy.”

Lindsey: Yeah.

Anne: They seem that way to you?

Lindsey: Yes.

Anne: For you, it was just that you knew he had a history of porn use.

Lindsey: Yes.

Anne: You can’t necessarily tell from his behavior whether or not he’s using it or not, all you could see is he doesn’t seem to be interested in meetings and therapy. That was your indicator that you were probably unsafe because you’ve got somebody with a history of lying to you and somebody with a history of using porn.

Lindsey: Exactly.

Anne: I’m thinking right now that those of us who can clearly see through their behavior, they’re very irritable, we’re kind of lucky maybe. The behavior is so much more extreme, but the weird thing is it doesn’t mean you’re in any less danger from being lied to.

Lindsey: No.

Anne: I’m not saying that we’re lucky it’s just an interesting dilemma and the spectrum of these abusive behaviors is so vast, and it can look so different.

Lindsey: Oh yeah.

Anne: Okay, so you’re separated in your home for about a year. You’re living upstairs and he’s living in the basement.

Lindsey: Yes.

Anne: I am personal friends with you, in the same state and the same place, and so I know you’ve been making an effort to have friends come over in the evening when you’re lonely and you’ve been learning new skills on how to navigate a life where you’re separated from your spouse. Now, after about a year you found out that he was still lying to you and using porn.

Lindsey: I wouldn’t say still lying. He wasn’t lying to me for that whole year. There was a two-month period of time, that I know of, where he definitely was.

Anne: And he could have been, you just don’t know yet.

Lindsey: He could have been.

Anne: After you found out that he had been lying to you again, you took some time.

Lindsey: Yes.

Anne: Let’s talk about that process of what to do now. You’ve been separated in your home, then you find out he’s been lying to you again, he’s been using porn again. You’ve already been separated in the home, so now what do you do? Talk about how you felt and the process that you went through to determine what steps to take next.

Lindsey: I actually need to back up a little bit, because that process started a little bit before I knew that he was lying to me. I had had some other pretty big indicators that something was really wrong.

How Can An In-Home Separation Help In Situations Of Abuse?

Anne: Can you tell us what those were?

Lindsey: I had a conversation with him shortly after one of his therapy appointments. He was on his way out the door, so it was not a good time to be talking but I had just asked him about how his therapy went and he was sharing with me about him being in a slump—how they say they’re in a slump—that he had shared that with his therapist.

The therapist had been working with him on trying to determine what his motivation for working recovery was, kind of doing pros and cons of working recovery and not working recovery. They had been doing a couple of different exercises and then he shared a question that the therapist had asked him, and it was basically saying, “How long do you think this is sustainable to stay in this slump?” And then he told me that his answer to the therapist had been something to the extent of, “Well, that depends on my wife.”

Anne: That depends on Lindsey.

Lindsey: Yeah, and I was like, “Oh, that’s not okay with me.” I don’t know if I could put words, at the time, to why that wasn’t okay with me, but that did not feel right. I want his recovery to be his own. I want him to be motivated to do it for his own wellbeing and I don’t want him to feel that it’s okay to not work recovery as long as I’m not making his life unbearable.

Anne: Or harder.

Lindsey: Yeah.

Anne: It’s like, “Well, if she doesn’t bug me anymore now, then maybe forever. It just depends on Lindsey.”

Lindsey: Granted, we talked about that conversation later. He didn’t intend it the way that I interpreted it. That said, it still came across, really, as a big red flag for me. At that point, that was actually the first time that I had ever considered the reality or possible reality of an out-of-home separation, and that scared me. It terrified me. So, the thought had been planted a couple of weeks before.

Anne: Before we go on, can you put into words why, if all other behaviors seem healthy, why lying and porn use to you is unacceptable?

Lindsey: Yeah, absolutely. The lying is just not an okay foundation for any relationship because, if he’s lying about this, who knows what else he could be lying about. Yes, on the surface of the things that I see and experience, seem to be okay but who knows.

Anne: Like you said, you’re not the most—

Lindsey: Observant.

Anne: I know you personally and you are, but it would be interesting to see if someone else were in your situation if she was like, “No, these things are really bad, these other things,” that maybe you’re not recognizing.

Lindsey: Yes, absolutely.

Anne: That would be interesting to know.

Lindsey: Oh, I’m sure it would be very different.

Anne: Or if she was like, “I agree.”

How Can Boundaries Help Me?

Gail Dines was on the podcast previously, if you have not heard that episode please go back and listen to it, she’s amazing. She was saying women, “Even if nothing else is going on you do not want, you cannot accept porn in a relationship period. It is an abusive act and it’s not okay.”

I’m proud of you for admitting that, even though you don’t exactly know how these behaviors are affecting me, I know that it is, and I will not accept it.

Lindsey: Yeah.

Anne: That is a really brave thing to do.

Lindsey: For me personally, pornography is something that goes against my values, my spiritual belief system, so that, also, has been very clear from the start. This is not okay. Before I found recovery for myself, I knew it was not okay, but I didn’t know that anything could be done about it.

I would be told by bishops what felt, to me, was contradictory statements. Like, “Recovery is possible, sobriety is possible and yet addiction is going to be a lifelong thing.” I didn’t get how those two things that felt to me like opposites could both be true.

Anne: It’s possible for him to change but if he doesn’t it’s actually possible for you, the victim, to find peace and happiness. It’s taking a long time.

Lindsey: Yeah.

Anne: It takes a long time to figure out what that looks like and how that’s going to go. Because lying and pornography are unacceptable to you, then you start this process of determining what is my next step for safety? I’ve already done an in-home separation and it seemed to keep me safe for a little while.

For a little while, it held him accountable for his behaviors, but it didn’t necessarily motivate him to change, which wasn’t your point. Your point was just to keep yourself safe. Now you’re realizing you’re not any safer.

Lindsey: Yeah.

Anne: How do you decide that you needed to increase your boundaries yet again toward an out-of-home separation (where he moves out of the house) because you’re still unsafe?

Lindsey: Yeah, that was a long thought process for me because, realistically, the boundary of an in-home separation has a wide range of levels of connection, even within that. I thought about it and I realized I had pretty much explored that range, at least as far as I knew how. We had a period of time fairly early on in the in-home separation where things were awful. He was acting out every week and telling me about it.

Anne: When you say acting out, you mean using porn and masturbating?

Lindsey: Yeah. That was happening on a weekly basis. It felt to me like it was endless, so that was really hard for me. At that point in time, our in-home separation was very low contact. I would schedule the times when I would be seeing him. It would be family dinner with the kids.

Outside of that and maybe a few other things I would pretty much say, “Okay, text me if you’re going to walk through the upstairs so I know that you’re walking through the upstairs.” Things like that where I would very much know where he was and where I was and that those were separate places.

When things were a lot better, we did spend time together and he still slept in the basement and I still slept upstairs, and I still maintained my bedroom as my safe space, so he wasn’t going in my room if I was in the room. At all. Ever.

I felt like I had explored that range and I felt like I was out of options. That’s a hard place to be because I don’t like making decisions from a place where I feel like there are no other options. That was a place where I had to sit for a while to think about, “Have I really explored all my options?”

Anne: I think that’s really interesting because people don’t understand that women who are in abusive relationships want the relationship to work, so they try every single option. It’s only when they are out of options that they think, “Alright, I have to do this because I’m out of options.” Before, when you did the in-house separation that seemed like the only option at the time or the best option.

Lindsey: It did seem like the best option. I did feel like I had a lot more options when I was making that decision.

Anne: What options were you considering at that time? You were considering an out-of-home separation and an in-home separation?

Lindsey: Honestly, I didn’t even consider an out-of-home at that time. It was pretty much options just within our relationship where I could say, “Okay, I need to not go on dates or I need to have variations in the amount of space I have, emotionally and physically.”

Anne: Then, when his abusive behaviors continue, now you’re thinking, “I’ve exhausted all those options and now my only is an out-of-home separation.” Does this out-of-home separation include variations?

Lindsey: Oh yeah, absolutely. I know that there is a huge range of options in terms of does he still spend time at the house, does he spend time with the kids, is it really just a different place to sleep or is it like we’re living in different states? There is a lot of options within that, but it was less. It felt like I was at one level and I was jumping up to five levels higher, in terms of my boundaries. That’s a big jump to make.

Anne: I was talking with you while you were trying to make this decision. You texted me and called me and asked if you were thinking through this straight, are these boundaries appropriate? You finally decided, “Yes, I am going to ask him to move out.” Your family, again, was confused.

Lindsey: Absolutely.

Anne: They’re like, “Why are you asking a perfectly capable, non-violent man who holds down a job, who is active in our church, who is seemingly a good dad to move out. This is confusing to us.”

Lindsey: Yeah.

Anne: At that time, did they understand it any more or was it still just baffling to them?

Lindsey: I don’t know if I can make a good judgment on that, honestly, because I was in such trauma myself. My perspective on what they were thinking and feeling, is probably very skewed.

Anne: Eventually, you moved forward regardless of what your perception of how other people felt was and you’re currently separated with him out of the home?

Lindsey. Yes.

Anne: How have you felt about your level of safety now? Now, before we talk about that I want to say that it’s so difficult to assess your safety in this situation because both scenarios feel unsafe.

Lindsey: Yeah.

Anne: Having them stay in the home feels unsafe because they’re lying to you and using porn. It feels uncomfortable and it’s against your value system. Then, secondly, you’re having your children’s dad move out, along with the financial and emotional ramifications that this might cause, and the fact that this could result in divorce, which you don’t want, feels unsafe too. It’s like which “unsafe” scenario do I choose and why? The decision is very complex. It’s not easy at all.

An In-Home Separation Allows For Meditation And Clarity

Since you have asked him to move out, have you felt, generally speaking, more emotionally safe.

Lindsey: I would say I felt more at peace. I don’t know if I would say “safer” because, realistically, I don’t know. I felt a lot of unease around asking for the out-of-home separation simply for the financial aspect of it. That was another reason I hesitated for a long time.

The conclusion that I came to, and it worked for us (it doesn’t work for everyone), was I asked that he cover the cost with extra work. He came up with the cost so that it doesn’t dip into our normal finances. That gave me a lot of peace going into this. Saying, “This is possibly temporary.”

It could be temporary, and if it is temporary and he does end up moving back in and we end up reconciling and our relationship moves forward in a healthy way, it’s not going to impact us negatively, in terms of our financial future.

Anne: Lindsey and I are going to pause now, and we will continue this conversation next week. We’re going to talk about what benchmarks are. Benchmarks are not boundaries and we’ll have that discussion next week, so you know the difference between a benchmark and a boundary. We’ll also talk about safety and different interpretations of the word safety, so please stay tuned for next week. I’m excited to have Lindsey back on.

If this podcast is helpful to you, please make a recurring monthly donation. Go to our website btr.org, scroll down to the bottom, click on Make A Donation, and set your recurring monthly donation today. Your donations enable me to continue to bring this message of peace and safety to women throughout the world.

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Until next week, stay safe out there.

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