12 step for wives of pornography addicts is commonly suggested to women who experience intimate betrayal. Michelle and Kate, members of the Betrayal Trauma Recovery Community, join Anne to talk about how 12 Step can harm victims.

If you need support, attend a Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group Session. You won’t be blamed for the emotional or psychological abuse or coercion.

12 Step Utilizes The Codependency Model (Hint – The Codependency Model Is Bad)

When women experience betrayal and abuse, they may feel eager to gain some control over their lives that feel out of control.

The codependency model, which is the basis of 12 step support groups, subtly blames victims for her husband’s choices and often suggests that women mind their own business.

Codependency and trauma are completely different. Trauma is external—someone does it TO you. Codependency means the problem is your fault. In our patriarchal society, church leaders often blame the wives, as if she didn’t do her duty as a righteous wife, and that’s why he betrayed her.

Codependency is misogynistic. It’s a way to trap women. Because if she thinks it’s her fault, she’ll try harder.

Transcript: 12 Step For Wives Of Pornography Addicts? What You Need To Know

Anne: I’m excited to have Michelle and Kate on the podcast today. They’re fellow Shero friends. We’re going to talk about all, mine included, of our journeys from finding out about our spouse’s addiction, and seeking help first through “codependent” means. Being on that train for a while, and then coming to grips with the fact that it’s abuse.

Then how we progress to where we are today. We’re all learning as we go. So if you’ve listened to the podcast, you may say, oh, she thought this two years ago, now she thinks something different. And that’s how we all progress. So let’s start with Michelle.

Thinking That 12 Step For Wives Of Pornography Addicts Would Help Me

Anne: Let’s talk about your journey of discovering healing. What has it been like?

Michelle: It seems like it’s been a forever road. First, there was a friend of mine who told me about this wonderful world of SAL.

Anne: Most listeners won’t know what SAL is. So let me jump in here for a second. This is 12 step for wives of pornography addicts. SAL or S-Anon or Co-SA, there are a bunch of different 12-step programs for wives of pornography addicts. Where wives do the 12-steps themselves. The wives fix their own “side of the street.” It’s implied from 12 step for wives of pornography addicts that you, the wife, have your own part to play in his addiction.

And that you need to work your own program. Basically mind your own business, make yourself better. And let him do his thing.

Michelle: And this was right when I found out about my husband’s addiction. And so I thought, okay, this is what everyone else is doing, so I guess this is what I need to do too. I attended three to four meetings a week, every week, for six months. And while doing this, I was reading and learning as much as I could learn about addiction and trauma.

Why The 12 Step Group For My Husband’s Pornography Addiction Didn’t Sit Right WIth Me

Michelle: So my first real memory of SAL was step one of 12 step for wives of pornography addicts. My life has become unmanageable, and I’m like, wait, my life was manageable a month ago. It’s not manageable now because of my husband’s choices, but I could do everything before, and now my life is unmanageable, but it’s not because I can’t manage my life.

It’s because my life has been turned upside down, and I was like, “Wait, that doesn’t feel right. I don’t like that, but I love the women here. And I love the stories they share. I love how vulnerable they are. I love how open they are. And maybe there’s something I can learn.” So I attended these 12-step meetings and never did a step. Never did them. I read them while we were there, but that’s it. And it was mainly for that connection.

And then I started to notice things. I started to find women who were similar to me. We were kind of out of the box thinkers. And then I realized that the more I told my story, and the more I heard other women’s stories, that’s what I actually needed to heal. It’s been a big discovery process. I liked it for some aspects, because it seemed like I had some control in the situation, when I didn’t. I just have control over me.

Anne: Yeah, it’s funny when you learn something new, like now viewing women who are in relationships with pornography users as abuse victims.

Shifting Away From Misogynistic “Healing” Models

Anne: Once I made that shift in my head, it was like, I’d always known it. And then I reframed everything in my past according to that paradigm, everything fit well. And now when I hear women who have a hard time wrapping their head around it. Or they feel more comfortable or more like they have some control because they’re sitting in the codependent model.

And if they have something to do with it, they can control it, right? So they feel a little more comfortable there at first. Now I think, how can they think that sometimes? And then I think, wait a minute, I thought that. And so it gives me some compassion to think back on my own process. Kate, can you tell us about your journey?

Kate: I actually did not use the 12-steps. I mean, I did a little bit, but I didn’t know it was 12-step at the time. My counselor gave me a bunch of questions. So I did all these things. I didn’t know they were actually the steps. Later on, I read the book Codependency No More, and I thought it was the greatest thing ever.

I loved codependency. It feels so empowering when you first learn about codependency. And then later on, when more trauma started coming out and I found out about my husband’s addiction, I had this analogy come to me: what if I was driving on the road and obeying all the rules? And then a car ran a red light and just blindsided me out of nowhere, and they’re drunk.

Why Codependency Isn’t A Thing

Kate: Yeah, that wouldn’t be my fault at all. I wasn’t doing anything wrong. I wasn’t breaking the law. They’re the ones who broke the law. They hit me. They’re the ones who are drunk. When I realized that, I was like, wait a minute. So, maybe the codependency thing isn’t as accurate as I thought, and then I started going into that.

Well, okay, I’m not codependent, but I have codependent behaviors. And then the more I learned that, it became well, I don’t have codependent behaviors. But some women do, and then it was like, well, never mind codependency.

I don’t think it exists, so that was kind of my transformation, especially codependency. 12-step for wives of pornography addicts today is so sugar coated. Still the origins, the actual foundation of codependency is still there. Even if it’s sugar coated, the treatment for it is still the same.

Anne: It’s a very sophisticated form of victim blaming because it manipulates the victim to think that she’s empowered while undermining, blaming, and shaming her.

Kate: The trauma model is sometimes harder to accept than codependency. Which is “Oh, I can control it. I can fix it.” In the trauma model, where I didn’t do anything wrong, and I’m not saying I don’t have flaws, but I didn’t do anything wrong to cause the issues in my marriage. Like the big issues of the addiction, it leaves me feeling more vulnerable.

Anne: Yeah, we were once at The Utah Coalition Against Pornography, and somebody’s materials had the classic drama triangle on it. Where you’ve got the persecutor, the victim and the rescuer. In the codependency model, that’s a common thing they bring out.

12 Step For Wives Of Pornography Addicts Doesn’t Teach Women How To Set Effective Boundaries

Anne: And they’re like, yeah, everybody’s in this dance, and sometimes you can be the persecutor, and sometimes you can be the rescuer, and sometimes you can be the victim. And in the trauma model, there’s a perpetrator and a victim.

And it’s not a dance. It doesn’t take two to tango. There’s nothing the victim can do to dance their way out of being a victim. They’re always going to be a victim. They can learn how to keep themselves safe, and they can set boundaries. Okay, let’s pretend like they don’t. And they decide I’m not going to set boundaries, or they don’t know about boundaries. They’re still a victim.

And guess what? It’s still not their fault. And so if they’re in it, they’re still a victim. The abuser is still the perpetrator. And it’s still not their fault. And I think it’s important to make clear that a man should never abuse his wife for any reason. Regardless of what she is doing, regardless of whether she sets boundaries or not. The abuse is still 100%. his deal.

Michelle: How many relationships do we see that the woman has all these crazy issues? These women in these relationships are usually hard workers. They’re usually trying to stay close to their higher power. They are usually dedicated, loyal women. They aren’t off the handle crazy like they’re portrayed. These men flock to these women for a reason. You can be as perfect as possible. And an abuser will still abuse.

The Impact Going To 12 Step For My Husband’s Pornography Addiction

Anne: Absolutely. So I want to tell you guys about my process before my ex’s arrest. I was 100 percent all in the trauma model. Okay, I hated codependency. I was never liking it. So I didn’t talk about it. I thought it was stupid. I called it out all the time. So I didn’t go to 12 step for wives of pornography addicts. I didn’t participate in other support groups. I felt like this was his problem, and he had to deal with it. And that, to improve our marriage problems, he had to stop acting out and being angry. That was the solution I saw.

Now I didn’t know how to set boundaries at that time. I thought a boundary was giving him a lecture, like, “This is absolutely inappropriate. You cannot do this. I will not stand for this.” And I’d give him lectures all the time. And I thought things were getting better.

I had this certain view of what was happening. And I thought that what I thought was the right thing. At the time, I thought codependency was stupid. Then when he got arrested, my whole world fell out from under me. And I thought, oh my, maybe I have been wrong this whole time. Maybe I have been the problem,? Maybe I don’t know how to live my life.

I Discovered The 12 Step Literature Blames Victims

Anne: And I immediately started going to 12-step for wives of pornography addicts, because I thought something had to be wrong with me. And reading, so I start going to these meetings and reading the blue book, the 12 step book for wives of addicts the S-Anon book.

It says things like. She’s diseased, that she’s pathological, that she’s enabled it. Tons of victim blaming. It would say stuff like, “You have a disease.”, which made me feel uncomfortable. So I would cross that out, and I would write in my book. “You are injured.” instead. My blue book looked like it had been rewritten, Anne style. And the more I thought about it and the more I looked at my book, I was like, wait a minute. I disagree with a lot of these parts in the book.

I’ve crossed out all these sections and written my own version. I was able to do that. It took a lot of mental gymnastics, but for women who can’t see that and work around it, as they read that book. They just feel the full weight of all the victim blaming in there, with no relief and no indication that they’re a victim of emotional and psychological abuse and coercion.

Michelle: If I get myself better, that means he’s going to get better too. Okay, I have some semblance of control here. It’s shifting the blame from him to now you.

The Problem With 12 Step For Wives Of Pornography Addicts

Michelle: And so now you’re like, okay, if I do all these things, then he’s going to magically get better. If I just take care of my side of the street, then his will start to become amazing, clean, and beautiful too. And so now you’re taking on all his stuff.

Anne: Right? This is the exact opposite thing that you want to do in this situation. From what they say in 12 step for wives of pornography addicts.

Kate: The problem is it masks it in a way that convinces you that you’re not taking on his stuff. You’re taking control of your life. You’re letting go of control of him. You need to sweep your side of the street. You need to let go of him, but in the process, it also leaves you unsafe. Because you’re basically putting your head in the sand and being like, I’m only focusing on what’s in front of me.

Michelle: Where we’re putting a Band-Aid on what we think is the problem, because codependency, that mindset, that attitude will never get to the root of the problem ever.

Anne: In an abuse situation, if you say, “Okay, I’m going to stay on my side of the street and focus on myself.” Just like they say in 12 step for wives of pornography addicts. And he’s still abusing you. You can’t see my side of the street out of abuse, you have to get off the street.

Kate: And part of your problem is that he’s flinging his crap all over you from his side of the street, so you can’t say you could be all clean on your side of the street while he’s flinging his crap onto you. It can’t work like that.

The Importance Of Emotional Safety Was Ignored

Anne: No, it absolutely cannot. So let’s talk about in your experience, what you found about codependency in 12 step for wives of pornography addicts that was so damaging and so harmful, and also what you see with other women.

Michelle: For me, I think the part I saw most damaging is that I’m already in a sensitive, broken place. And had I not believed some things about myself, or had I decided I’m not going to trust my gut. I would have easily fallen into many of these ideas that would have taken me further away from healing. And it would have been a lot longer for me to get here.

So, that first, your life is unmanageable. And I thought, well gosh, yeah, it is unmanageable now. It totally is unmanageable now. And then that little voice would say, but it wasn’t before. And then, you know, here we come to humility. Well, I thought I was humble. You know, I thought I was doing these things. I thought I was being this person.

And now I’m questioning me and my connectedness. My counselor told me you have multiple personality disorder, you have codependency. I thought I’m out of my mind crazy, and I didn’t even know this about myself like it was making me question so much about my core self. I was trying to adopt them, because this is what people in my situation do, and I need to conform and fit in.

So that whole six months when I read and studied, and luckily I found you, and I was like what you’re saying resonates with me so much.

12 Step For Wives Of Pornography Addicts Didn’t Identify What Caused My Trauma Accurately

Michelle: You helped me reconnect with myself again, and realized that what I needed for healing had nothing to do with 12-step, codependency, and this 12-step for wives of pornography addicts box. And that’s what I felt like. It was like, “You fit into this box. If you just do what it says in this box, you’re going to get better. And your husband’s going to get better in this box too.” And I just thought, no, no I’m not. And he’s not either. This will enable him to be worse. It would have kept me trapped.

Anne: Yeah, because we’re resisting abuse, but that blue book calls it “manipulative behaviors.” It was all over the place. I crossed the victim blaming phrase “manipulative behaviors” out all over in the blue book. And I wasn’t manipulating anyone. I was resisting abuse. I wanted to get to safety, and there was absolutely nothing wrong with me asking my husband if he viewed pornography. There was nothing wrong with me. Checking his internet history.

There’s nothing inherently wrong with doing any of those things that 12 step for wives of pornography addicts say are wrong. Because you have the right to establish truth and safety for yourself. Those are things that you deserve. So this whole talk around, it’s a bad person, because you’re trying to figure out what he’s doing is crazy.

Michelle: Yeah, and it makes you feel insane, and you start to say, “Okay, I know this about my husband, and if I am just blind to it all, it’s gonna magically get better.” You were blind to it before, and it didn’t get better. So yeah, it is crazy.

12 Step For Wives Of Pornography Addicts Wasted 2 Years Where I Could Have Been Focused On My Emotional Safety

Kate: With my first husband, I used a spy program, and that’s the only way I found everything out. There’s no way he would have told me the truth. And I’m sitting here thinking, “Well, but if I hadn’t put a spy program on the computer, I wouldn’t have found anything, which means I probably would still be married to him. I would have zero clue. I probably would have an STD by now.”

Who knows? The possibilities are endless. “I think it’s sad there’s so much shame around the whole, like, don’t snoop. You can’t snoop. Don’t look on his phone. That’s just trying to control him. And I’m like, no, that’s for safety. I have the right to know what is going on in my home that puts my life in danger or my kids. It is a fundamental right to know about things in a relationship that will affect me.

Anne: Absolutely. If someone says you don’t have the right to ask or know the truth, it’s a form of victim silencing.

Michelle: And abuse and keeping them in that place.

Kate: We have a friend who was abused in every way possible by her husband. And even she said she started with the 12 step for wives of pornography addicts and the codependency model.

And she’s like, “That kept me in the abuse even longer.” Because he was doing all these sorts of things, and she just stayed in danger even longer. I think it actually does that to a lot of women, but they don’t always realize it because they feel that empowerment of I’m changing my life. Like I am taking control. It leaves many women in a dangerous position that they don’t realize they’re in.

The Importance Of Emotional Safety Swept Under The Rug With 12 Step For Wives Of Pornography Addicts

Anne: Exactly. That’s why we always focus on safety here at Betrayal Trauma Recovery. Make sure you’re emotionally and psychologically safe. That is the key. I get off the street.

Kate: Yeah, I used to love the 12 step for wives of pornography addicts. I was like, there needs to be 12 steps at church. Everyone needs to do them. Like I loved them so much. And it wasn’t until I started researching more about how did Al Anon start? How did S-Anon start?

I started realizing, wait a minute. If you look at the S-Anon or any group for women, there’s Versus the addiction 12 steps. They’re the exact same wording, except for maybe one or two words. And that’s what I started having a problem with. Because there was a point in time where I was trying to make my own 12-steps, but trauma 12 steps. And I kept trying to do it. I couldn’t do it, because the 12 step for wives of pornography addicts was so founded in the addiction stuff.

It’s like if I went to counseling for schizophrenia, even though I don’t have it, could I get some benefit out of it? Maybe, but do I have schizophrenia? No. And is there a possibility that I could get wrong information and it could hurt me? Yes.

Anne: Exactly, you guys would have died on my 12 step for wives of pornography addicts meeting when I was the moderator. I mean, I was like, no, that’s not true. Cross this part out. Don’t listen to that part. What did you guys find intriguing about some codependent thinking? Why did you stay for six months if you were like, I’m not going to even work on one step of 12 step for wives of pornography addicts?

The Harmful Effects Of Mislabeling Trauma

Michelle: 12-step for wives of pornography addicts kind of made me feel that if I can control myself, I’m going to control what happens. Because I like to think that I can control stuff, this is something I already heard in a church cultural teaching. If I live my life a certain way, then I can expect these certain outcomes.

That’s what 12 step for wives of pornography addicts did. If I do these things, my husband will fall in line too. And I can expect this happy, eternal, beautiful marriage. And it’s going to be this amazing thing. Okay. If I just do every one of those steps the way they say I need to do them.

Anne: Like if you obey the commandments, and if you get married to this type of person who “obeys the commandments” is worthy to marry you, then you guys will live a blissful eternal life together.

Michelle: Yeah, everything’s gonna work out. You’re gonna have three kids. They’re all gonna be beautiful. And then you’re gonna have the house up on the hill. Everybody looks at.

Anne: And then it falls apart, and you think, was it because I wasn’t obedient enough? And so the 12 step for wives of pornography addicts has that similar feel. What about you, Kate? What did you find intriguing about it?

Kate: I love the order. It was like, I need to do something to help me. I want to feel better. And it’s a checklist that made me feel better. Because I felt like I was doing something proactive, the problem was that I was more focused on doing steps and checklists, instead of connecting to who I was and reconnecting back to my gut intuition that I lost through gaslighting.

How To Live Free From Your Husband’s Pornography Addiction Without Going To 12 Step

Anne: Yeah. That’s what the Betrayal Trauma Recovery Living Free Workshop is about, how to connect to yourself. So you can make your way to safety in a way that does not blame you for the situation.

Kate: When I learned how to reconnect back to myself. I don’t need to do this checklist of things. I don’t need it. That actually holds me back. It’s keeping me in a box. Whereas now, I can pull resources from tons of different stuff, or listen to the spirit and actually get inspiration on something. Instead of feeling like I need to follow these steps.

Another thing is going in order, I actually don’t like it now. Michelle actually asked me to be her sponsor, and I was like, uh, sure, but I’m not going to do it in the order it says. And I’m not gonna do it the way that usually most sponsors do it. And instead, I was just more helping her see like, it’s not a check box thing.

There are many women who like check boxes. They like so much structure. And I think the 12 Step for wives of pornography addicts helps them feel better about that, but it doesn’t fix the problem.

Anne: Looking at the principles of 12 step for wives of pornography addicts, it’s valuable, but not in an abuse situation. With abuse victims, rather than thinking, “Okay, well, there must be a reason this is happening because I didn’t do this or I didn’t do that.” The moment she realizes how strong, beautiful, and brave she is, that is the moment she can start to make her way out of the abuse.

12 Step For Wives Of Pornography Addicts Keeps Women Stuck In Abuse

Anne: How can I help a victim of abuse? Tell her that she didn’t deserve that. That she’s brave and strong, that she can do it. You’re there for her and you support her. Not say, “Let’s look at your character defects and how you’re contributing to the problem.”

Michelle: You would never say that in any other situation. That’s what’s unique about us. If this was a burn victim, you wouldn’t tell them to stand by the flames.

Kate: Yeah. If it was an assault victim, you wouldn’t be like, so what did you do that caused it? What were you wearing that maybe attracted this person to do that to you? That’s not the right thing to say to someone.

Michelle: You’re in this place where you feel like you’re at the bottom of a pit and clawing your way. Like your life as you knew it, is no longer that way, and it won’t ever be that way again. You don’t trust yourself, so you grasp onto these things. Then I started, like, well, they’re telling me this, and I obviously messed up big time. I’m going to have to buy into this.

Kate: I feel like 12 step for wives of pornography addicts might even make someone go backward. Take out all the connection you found in 12 steps for wives of porn addicts, all the wonderful friends you found, the feeling you’re not alone. Take that away. What makes it good, if it is good for someone, is mostly the connection.

Michelle: Not only does it keep the spouse stuck, it also keeps the addict stuck, and it enables his abusive behavior.

Anne: Absolutely, they’re already narcissistic. Then, the 12 step tells them to focus even more on themselves.

Going To 12 Step Meant The Problem Was Partly My Fault (Which Is A Lie)

Anne: They need to think less about themselves. They need to be like, I have abusive thought patterns, and what I need to do now is focus on how my wife feels, and how my children feel. That is what I need to focus on.

Michelle: And the social impact of my choices, rather than all about me and me and me.

Kate: That’s why I don’t recommend it. There has to be a better way than sending someone to something that, yeah, might create more danger.

Anne: So, Kate, I see tons of therapists doing this, and it ticks me off. They say, I help women with betrayal trauma, but what they mean is codependency, because they don’t even know what betrayal trauma means. Tell me about your experience with that.

Kate: First off, codependency was created solely with the belief that the wife hurts the addict and exhibits the same behaviors as the addict. This means she must be an addict, which means she must also be diseased like the addict. This is why they created the 12 step for wives of pornography addicts, because they’re like, “Hey these wives man, they’re just as bad as the addict.” We need to send them to the same treatment as the addict.”

And now it’s all sugarcoated. I read an article about how codependency doesn’t mean the same thing it used to mean. You know, it’s not as harsh. It’s more just a way to help yourself and heal all your flaws. It’s not though, it’s still rooted in the same thing. Stephanie Karnes, she was all about codependency. And then she came out and said, “Oh, I don’t like codependency. I never felt good with it, it’s all trauma now,” but they haven’t changed anything.

My Trauma Wasn’t Caused By Codependency

Kate: Nothing like Robert Weiss. He even is like, “Oh, I don’t like codependency either.” But then he like calls it some other name. It’s the exact same treatment as codependency, but he just calls it a different name. No, codependency and trauma are completely two different things. They are caused by two different things.

One is external and one is internal. Trauma is an injury. Something happened to you. Somebody did something to you. Whereas codependency, something is wrong with you. You have a disorder. You have a problem. A lot of people think, Oh, but they have a lot of the same behaviors. And so they read this list of all these codependency things.

They’re like, yeah, that fits, that fits. I’m like that. Yeah, I’m like that. But then when you really look at it, it’s like, So what if some of the behaviors are similar? That doesn’t mean they’re the same thing. Like I have similar behaviors as someone who is schizophrenic or bipolar, but guess what? I’m not, I have ADHD just because two symptoms are similar does not mean that they are the same thing or that they are caused by the same thing. They are completely different.

Anne: Yeah, and it feels like it’s stemming from misogyny because it’s a way of pathologizing and blaming women and trying to silence them and get them to like mind their own business and stay in their lane. so that the men can continue to do what they’re going to do without consequences.

The 12 Steps For Wives Of Pornography Addicts Was Basically Just A List Of Things My Misogynistic Husband Wanted Me To Do

Kate: Like back in the day, therapists were even taught that if a child came to them and said they were abused, that the child was making it up for attention. This was the belief that if a woman was assaulted, She must have done something to cause it. That it was her fault, or that she’s making it up.

They would believe, “Oh, she’s crazy. There’s something wrong with her.” Instead of looking at the fact that he’s the one making her crazy. He’s the one causing all the symptoms. He’s the one gaslighting her. So if she’s feeling crazy, or if she’s angry, that doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with her, it means he’s the one doing it.

Anne: Totally. And in the worst case scenario, he looks like nothing’s wrong with him. Like rather than saying she’s just as crazy as him, it’s “He is such a good guy. Like he is strong at church and he’s obedient. She just went off the deep end.” She needs 12 step for wives of pornography addicts.

Kate: Yep. Here you got wives that are getting angry.

And of course they’re angry. They’re supposed to be angry. I feel like it’s kind of, even though I don’t like to use this analogy, because I’m not saying women are dogs. But let’s say you abused like an animal and starved it, and then you backed it into a corner, and then that animal bit you. Is that the animal’s fault? No, it’s the fact that you starved it and beat it. And I feel like that’s what happens.

Changing Label From Codependency To Some Euphemism Doesn’t Solve The Problem

Kate: So if a wife suddenly reacts and gets angry, it’s like, “Oh, what? What’s wrong with her? Something must be wrong with her.” And then they look at the abuser. And they’re like, “He’s the calm one. He’s the one that has his stuff together.” I see the opposite now. And I’m like, what did he do?

Anne: That’s how I am too, I just talked to clergy. And I said, “One sign is if she’s walking around church giving everybody the stink eye, and nobody likes her, and she seems super grumpy, and her husband seems so nice and outgoing, and he’s making friends with everybody, just consider for a minute that he’s abusive,” and that would never cross anybody’s mind. Women don’t become crazy pants for nothing.

Michelle: Exactly, and I want to add something to this, because I think it’s important. This idea of, “I’m just going to change the label. I’m going to say it’s trauma and not codependency.” It does become sneaky, and it becomes hard to see, which adds to the abusiveness, I think.

Because then it’s so subtle, and it moves in, and some things are, Oh, you just found out three weeks ago, but we’re supposed to forgive. So, can we just forgive him? Can we work on starting to trust each other now? Dealing with trauma is so much more complicated than dealing with codependency.

If we actually have to start healing a serious injury in a wound, it’s going to be different for everybody. It requires more knowledge and understanding, instead of looking at as, okay, we’re going to treat this sick patient because they have deep rooted problems. Okay. We’re going to help somebody who has been a victim and not known it for so long.

Realizing I Can’t Do Anything To Stop Him From Using Pornography Was Crazy Painful

Michelle: That is harder to deal with. And it’s like these little things that people are trying to help, but it’s not helpful. It is putting it on the person that has nothing to do with it.

Anne: Yeah, I see that all the time. The pressure for victims to “forgive” the perpetrator, to reconcile. It puts her in danger. And she feels uneasy about it, because she’s still resisting the abuse. So rather than pressuring and manipulating a victim to say, Hey, you should be okay with this on some level. And go to 12 step for wives of pornography addicts.

We need to say you’re a victim of abuse, and our first order of business is to ensure the abuse has stopped or you’ve been separated from it. Cause if I forgive him, it’s not going to stop him from abusing me.

Michelle: That again stems back to something that you pointed out that’s important. It’s because we live in a patriarchal society and if we’re talking about like church, ecclesiastical leaders. The thing that should be done first to protect the abuse victim is the last thing done.

Because she’s just a crazy woman, and we need to protect the men. We’re going to shirk off as much responsibility from him onto her. It’s a good boy’s club. They view women on such a lower plane than the men. And that’s the root of this.

Kate: Many times women are like, yeah, but my behaviors seem unhealthy. They’re not helping me. There has to be something wrong with me. So what is wrong with me? I’m not codependent. What is wrong with me? I kind of have to remind them. I’m like, think about it this way, all your qualities, what people say are enabling.

12 Step For Wives Of Pornography Addicts Doesn’t Offer Any Safety

Kate: Imagine if your husband was wonderful, honest, and not an addict, just imagine if he was a healthy person. Would any of your behaviors be bad? Would you care too much about what he’s thinking? No, you would actually be in a healthy marriage. So just because your husband is an addict does not mean you’re loving or too loving behaviors.

It doesn’t mean they’re bad. They’re actually healthy. It’s actually one of the reasons probably why the addict wanted to marry you is because you are a good person. Just because he’s an addict doesn’t mean those behaviors are suddenly bad.

Anne: And for 12 step for wives of pornography addicts or a therapist or anyone to say that you need to be safe enough so he can tell the truth, or that you need to stop your controlling and manipulative behaviors, because if you stopped, he wouldn’t do this. That’s not true. He was doing it before, so no. We could go through every one of those things and say no, no, no.

Kate: Yeah, think about it this way. If someone was drowning and they started freaking out and thrashing around, would you ever think their behavior was unhealthy or not normal? No, they’re drowning. Now imagine if the person pushed in them they love the most, and then actually held them under the water sometimes, like, would you think, “Wow, why are they thrashing around? Why are they acting like that?”

No, their life is in danger. So we need to stop looking at these behaviors as unhealthy, and as this is what happens when your life is threatened and they’re not bad.

Michelle: Yeah, those are protective behaviors where there’s no one else who’s around to protect you. You have to protect yourself.

Getting Help For Wives Without Going To 12 Step

Anne: Yeah, it took me a long time to figure out how to keep myself safe. My ex abused me for eight years post divorce. It was very similar to the abuse before we got divorced, because divorce doesn’t solve an abuse problem. And so I studied and figured out the principles of safety. And I figured out safety strategies, then I put those in the Living Free Workshop.

If you’re listening and you’re like, well, what should I do? A good place to start is the Betrayal Trauma Recovery Living Free Workshop.

It’s just really difficult for people who have not been through it to wrap their heads around the fact that women can do everything right. And not understand they’re being abused. And continue to be abused, even when they’re going to therapy, even when they’re getting help. Unless you get the right information. There is nothing that would stop you from being abused if you don’t recognize it for what it is.

Kate: Nothing. And the odds are against all women, because you could become the healthiest person in the world, and guess what? 80 percent of men still look at pornography? So, the odds are against all women. So just because somebody marries a pornography addict, they’re a liar, and they abuse you, doesn’t mean you had something to do with it.

Michelle: You didn’t attract it

Kate: No, it wasn’t because you’re abused when you’re younger, because one of three women were abused. That doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with you that somehow you attracted this man. It’s like no, the odds are against you, and these men seek women out, not that women attract them.

Answers For Wives of Pornography Addicts

Anne: Yeah, all that is true. And when we say that 12 step for wives of pornography addicts doesn’t help, the air kind of leaves the room because women are like, so what can I do? Because they’re looking for answers. That’s why they gravitate sometimes toward codependency and 12 step for wives of pornography addicts, even though that model harms them. Because women want to know that they can enjoy the fruits of their own labor.

So again, if you’re thinking this, the Living Free Workshop is a great place to start, because there’s no victim blaming in it. It will teach you some safety strategies that will help you separate yourself from that type of abuse. I’m so grateful that I’ve learned what I’ve learned through the process of going through this, so that I can share it with other people. Kate and Michelle, thank you so much for spending time talking with me today about this.