WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT CHEATING? THE UNTOLD TRUTH

If you’ve just discovered your husband lied to you and was cheating, and you’re wondering what does the Bible say about cheating husbands? This is for you.

 Every woman is welcome at BTR no matter what her faith paradigm. A lot of women of faith come to BTR in a spiritual crisis because of how their clergy responded to their husband’s infidelity or lying, and part of their healing is processing what the Bible actually says about these betrayals.

Here’s the truth that you’ve likely never heard anywhere else.

WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT LYING

 Since cheating and infidelity involve lying on every level, what they do with their time, what they’re thinking, how they’re using their phone, lying is really the heart of this.

One thing a cheating husband really lies about is the reason he lies, and usually blames that on his wife. He’ll accuse her of things she didn’t do, attribute motivations to her that she doesn’t have. He may try to get the kids in reunification therapy. This is called false witness in the scriptures.

Exodus 20:16 – 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.

Psalm 101:7 – He that worketh deceit shall not dwell within my house: he that telleth lies shall not tarry in my sight.

God does not like lying. He wants His followers to be treated with honesty and respect. If your husband is lying to you even by love bombing, it means he is not treating you in a safe or kind way.

WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT CHEATING ONLINE

What does the Bible say about cheating when it’s “JUST” in the form of inappropriate media online?

For example, if he’s lying to you about how he’s using his computer, phone, or time, and lusting after women, supporting an exploitative industry where women are used and coerced. At the very least, this is adultery.

Exodus 20:14 – Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Matthew 5:28 – 28 But I say unto you, that whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

2 Corinthians 6:14,17 – Be ye not unequally yoked…for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?…Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.

If you’re husband has been using pornography, it’s adultery. If you’re experiencing this, you need support. Attend a Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group Session TODAY.

To determine if he has the type of wicked character that God says we need to separate ourselves from, learn more about The Betrayal Trauma Recovery Workshop.

WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT FORGIVENESS AFTER HE CHEATED

 Well, in the Bible, forgiveness is more about debt. Like, “Forgive me, My debt as I forgive my debtors.” Debt is something that binds people together. If you don’t forgive someone of their debt, then you’re always constantly thinking “Hey, you owe me this.” And then they stay tied to you.

So forgiveness in the scriptures is actually a way to move away from them.

Ezra 10:11 Separate yourselves from the strange [husbands].

Hebrews 7:26 – Who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners

Many women’s situations get worse when their pastors support quick forgiveness and reconciliation with their abusers.  Moving away from an abuser may or may not mean divorce, but it certainly means you don’t keep yourself in contact with someone who’s harming you.

FINDING HOPE FOR JUSTICE, LOOKING FOR WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT CHEATING

Deuteronomy 32:4 – 4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Psalm 10:17–18 – 17 Lord, thou hast heard the desire of the humble: thou wilt prepare their heart, thou wilt cause thine ear to hear. To judge the fatherless and the oppressed, that the man of the earth may no more oppress.

Isaiah 9:7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end…to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever.

WHEN CHURCHES GIVE VICTIMS HARMFUL COUNSEL, WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT CHEATING

 The scriptures have so many examples of how Christ asks us to separate ourselves from evil. And if your husband’s lying to you all the time, deceiving you, that is certainly an act of harm.

If you are being harmed in this way, you’re technically a victim of emotional and psychological abuse, or they may label you. So many faiths say, “Hey, we don’t want you to be abused,” but for some reason if it’s “just” betrayal, you may not identify as a victim of abuse, but it’s important to learn why his lying and infidelity are abuse.

Many women in the BTR community received harmful counsel that actually kept them in harm’s way. For example:

• Just have more sex with your abusive husband
• Submit to sex however and whenever he wants you to do it
• Divorce is always the devil’s plan; if you decide to divorce your abuser, you are listening to Satan
• The church will abandon you if you choose to leave your abuser
• If he abuses you, it is because his needs are not met, so be a better “helpmeet”
• He uses pornography because you, the victim, are not sexual enough
• He lies to you because you are an angry woman
• Forgive and forget
• Trust him again, right away, in order to save your marriage
• There are two sides to every story – be charitable and see your part in this

Harmful and downright abusive “counsel” can send victims into a downward spiral. Many victims can become so traumatized by clergy that they face a faith crisis and may feel unable to participate in organized religion at all.

To discover if you’re emotionally abused, take our free emotional abuse test.

IF YOUR CHURCH HAS HARMED YOU, PRACTICE SELF-COMPASSION

If you are or once were a member of a faith community, now facing a faith crisis, or have distanced yourself from church. You may feel ashamed, guilty, and isolated. Know that the secondary trauma you experienced because of ignorant, harmful and/or abusive clergy is not your fault. You trusted your church leaders, and they should have been there for you. They may take what does the Bible say about cheating and twist it. But when churches don’t believe abuse victims, it is crushing. Some have been victims of ritualistic abuse.

Please practice self-care, seek support, and douse yourself in compassion. The Betrayal Trauma Recovery Group is here for you. Join today and begin your journey to healing.

TRANSCRIPT: WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT CHEATING HUSBANDS?

Anne: I have a master’s level researcher on today’s episode. She’s also been through this herself and she’s going to be sharing some of her personal story. Welcome. Lisa

Lisa: Thank you, Anne. It’s good to be here.

Anne: Start with your story. In the context of finding out that your husband has been using pornography or lying to you or psychologically abusing you. And your church community doesn’t stand by what the does the Bible say about cheating husbands and that creates a spiritual crisis.

Lisa: Absolutely, I experienced this. I have a faith background and was active in my local church as my marriage fell apart.

I hit a lot of abuse, and I went through a deep spiritual crisis that would last for years. So I questioned whether God could still love me, because the church rejected me for making a stand and walking away from a man who was not willing to stop lying. Having my [00:06:00] faith pulled out from underneath me was part of why that was such a low, low time for me. I felt that if there was support, if people were talking about sex addiction. Perhaps I wouldn’t have hit such a low point.

SOMEHOW IT’S THE WOMAN’S FAULT

Anne: When you say you hit a lot of abuse. Are you talking about abuse from the church? And what does the Bible say about cheating?

Lisa: Yes, unfortunately, and mine is one of many, many stories. Similar thread runs through all of them, so it’s somehow not the man’s fault. It’s the woman’s fault. Especially if she decides to make a strong boundary, like I’m leaving abuse.

I got threatening letters from a pastor throughout the four or five years I was single. Living as a solo mom in a different city, I moved cities to get a full time job. Eventually, that would even lead to a death threat. And it’s interesting, my mother, who also had to leave my father for his chronic infidelity, went through almost exactly the same thing. How do you know when to leave?

She got threatening phone calls. Ultimately, she also faced a death threat. You know, I was blessed that I had learned from her how to stand up to spiritual abuse.

Anne: My church leader told me I was the abuser, because I said my husband was abusive. It was unbelievable. There was so much abuse that happened because my ex manipulated our church leader.

So you sent your survey to over 100 women. What did it reveal about how victims of abuse often go through a spiritual crisis?

Lisa: Of the over 100 women who answered, more than 63 percent felt they had gone through a significant spiritual crisis.

MANY WOMEN EXPERIENCE A SPIRITUAL CRISIS

Lisa: The only thing surprising about that was that the number was that low. It was interesting, because some started saying, “No, I didn’t go through a spiritual crisis.” But as they continued to answer the questions, there was an open comments field. They went, you know what, I hadn’t thought I had gone through a spiritual crisis, but I can see now that I actually did.

Which makes you realize that sometimes the types of trauma symptoms that a woman faces can be so overwhelming that they may not even realize they’re having a crisis of faith, an existential crisis, that their larger spiritual framework has become shaky.

For some women, the spiritual crisis really centered around their broader belief in God, in a higher power. Others felt it was just around church and other people who share their faith, their normal faith community. Because of misinterpretations of what the Bible say about cheating.

For some women, it was both. When we looked at the women who were feeling distrustful of God, of their higher power, they talked about feeling duped by him. They talked about feelings of injustice, feeling I have been a solid, faithful person in my faith community.

I’ve been solid and faithful in my marriage. Why would something like this happen to me? It’s not fair. Women talk about feelings of rejection by God or judgment. Some talked about feeling abandoned by God. And then many of those women experienced something similar in the church. They experienced rejection in their church or faith community. They experienced abandonment in their faith community.

ADDITIONAL FACTORS CAUSING PAIN WHEN BETRAYED, WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT CHEATING

Lisa: Sometimes they experienced outright persecution. Like my story, my mother’s story, and many other women’s stories. The more deeply a woman was involved in her faith community, particularly if she was the spouse of the head of the community, or was involved in some kind of ministering, the more she felt it.

Particularly those wives of leadership, ministry wives, they really had their world rocked. They had so much more to lose. And most of them keep a high level of anonymity, because they fear the loss of their world if his abuse should be discovered.

Wives who’d had a difficult past and had come to faith as adults often their understanding of the world was, well, I suffered a lot in my relationships in the past because I didn’t have my faith, but now I’ve got my faith community and met a faithful man. So now we’re gonna have the ideal marriage. When they find out that their ideal Christian husband or a husband of their faith is actually lying, it causes quite a crisis. That’s not to imply they were naive or anything like that. That’s certainly what churches teach, it’s implied frequently.

Anne: I mean, I had a sense that if I obeyed the commandments and followed the teachings, I would be protected. The teachings were forgive, love, support your husband. And when I realized that all the forgiving, serving, and loving actually enabled his abuse. I wasn’t taught to protect myself or separate myself from wickedness. They weren’t applying what does the Bible say about cheating.

TAUGHT TO LOVE, SERVE AND FORGIVE, NOT TO PROTECT OURSELVES

Anne: In my faith, it’s fine to get divorced if abuse is an issue. They didn’t believe me that I was being abused. They just wanted me to continue to love, serve, and forgive. What does the Bible say about cheating? Love, serve, and obey

Lisa: Grace to him and nuts to you. You just need to forgive more and it’ll all be solved. That’s not true.

Anne: Well, since the abuser exploits us and may gaslight us. Forgiving him solves his problem. Cause he can continue exploiting you. They can’t see anything from their victim’s point of view, they can’t perceive the problem is the exploitation. Because the only problem for them is that they’re not able to exploit us. So if we “forgive” them and go back to how things were it actually does solve their problem.

Lisa: We were talking earlier about your pastor being in way over his head. Along with addiction goes lies, minimize, rationalize, justify, and blame. The basic formula for many faith communities is to stand up for men and blame women. Most of them would never think of it in those kinds of terms. But if you watch the pattern, there’s a history of if you have to side with one or the other, you side with the man. A lot of them have a blame for the woman mentality, and that’s what I saw in my circumstances. He was a pathological liar.

The boys all got together to believe what my husband said, and very few people asked me what’s your side of the story here.

ACCUSATIONS OF EXAGGERATION

Anne: Most of the time when they ask for your side of the story, they’re viewing it as if he has his side and you have your side. And the truth is somewhere in the middle. But that’s not the reality. She’s telling the truth, and he’s manipulating everyone and managing his image. People say to me, well, that’s too simple. And I’m like, it actually is that simple.

Lisa: We’re not over exaggerating. If anything, we’re holding back. Because some of this stuff is going on in our bedrooms. And we’re not keen to talk to our pastor about that. Abuse in the bedroom, or it’s neglect in the bedroom. Stuff that we have difficulty explaining. Which is cluing us into the fact that this guy is not who he says he is. And there’s something seriously wrong. She doesn’t have the impetus to lie and hide that he does.

Anne: Right, we constantly get accused of exaggerating.

Lisa: Yeah, you must be exaggerating.

Anne: Yeah, I’m like, I’m not exaggerating. But then you’re trying to prove you’re not exaggerating, you look more and more crazy. So it’s this downward spiral.

Lisa: What makes this so difficult for women in a faith community is that her trauma symptoms make her look crazy. Whereas, often the husband has worked really, really hard to maintain this smooth image. We should say, “Wow, the level of emotion she’s exhibiting proves the veracity of her statements.” It should actually lead to credibility in what she’s saying. And his, too smooth, should be getting picked up on people’s radar. That alone should be a cue but they don’t. People tend to see it as the opposite. But, what does the Bible say about cheating?

PRESSURE FROM THE CHURCH, WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT CHEATING

Lisa: I think where sex addiction has gone in the last decade, where pornography has gone in the last decade, is so horrific. If that is not part of your purview, if you’ve never considered the ways people can go off the rails, it can seem like, surely not, surely he’s not doing that, surely it can’t be that bad, surely it’s not as awful as you’re saying. But it is.

Anne: Right. Look at what does the Bible say about cheating.

Lisa: There are researchers and experts who will tell you it is that bad.

Anne: Mm hmm.

Lisa: It’s horrific. So when we’re talking about women being spiritually abused or persecuted by their church, and I’m sure between us, we could list dozens of stories. Even just this morning, I received an email from a woman telling me a little bit of her story. They began policing her sex life, telling her she needed to be more available, and started actually asking questions regularly about her availability.

Anne: Wait, what? That’s sexual coercion. They’re literally using sexual abuse to harass this woman and force her to be oppressed by her husband. Wow.

Lisa: Absolutely. She said, “I hate sex.” I began having sex with my husband because of pressure from the church. And the sad reality is sometimes there is no answer to getting away from the abuse outside of leaving a particular faith community. And some people leave all faith communities because of this. I think that’s understandable, and I never criticize people for doing what they need to do to protect themselves.

Anne: That’s so hard.

HOW SPIRITUAL GROWTH IS AFFECTED

Anne: You mentioned the survey also looked at spiritual growth. What did it show about that?

Lisa: So many of these women, more than the 63 percent of the 79 percent, said that through this journey of discovering their husband’s sex addiction, pornography addiction, and walking through crisis, they came to a stronger place in their faith.

And for a small percentage, that was pretty instant. They found out, and they just kind of flopped into God’s arms for comfort. One woman said, “No, that was always my safe place. And so I went there immediately.” But for more women, it was part of coming through the spiritual crisis, they ended up with a strengthened faith.

And others talked about having a better relationship with God on the other side of this. By that, I mean they’d always had a relationship with God, and this was my experience. I had a relationship with God, but God and I are much closer. And I feel like I get him at a deeper level, and it’s much more life giving for me. It was meditations and prayers.

I had certainly heard from other women. It’s joining a support group like yours, and seeing other women and how it’s bolstering them, in a loving, non pressuring way. And they begin to reconnect they are more at peace. They feel stronger, more loved and supported. Many of us begin to rethink our faith. I began to question everything I thought I’d ever known about God.

The Bible talks about this idea that trials will grow us. What does the bible say about cheating? What in my beliefs feels fundamentally true. And what is just baggage?

THINKING ABOUT THE NATURE OF GOD

Lisa: For example, the whole, we don’t have boundaries thing,

Anne: Right.

Lisa: Or a step about women’s place, some fundamental things about the nature of God, for example, that we begin to think through more carefully. The nature of God itself. That’s an enormous issue. People don’t even realize they often carry contradictory pictures of God around with them. He is complex and mysterious.

At the same time, He wants to show His goodness to women at the time of their suffering. The Bible talks about His thoughts. His heart is towards the suffering, marginalized, widows and orphans. He wants justice for the widows and orphans. Sometimes what does the Bible say about cheating is misinterpreted.

We’ve got a generation of pornography widows and sex addiction orphans out there. God wants them treated well, he wants justice for them, he wants them lifted up. And I’d like to see the church begin to respond to God’s heart in that.

I idolized marriage. That fell by the wayside as part of this journey, not surprisingly. I realized that marriage was never going to fulfill all my great longings for love and relationship. That was something I could only find in God. That was a big part of my spiritual growth.

Anne: Speaking of justice for the widows, I did a podcast episode about Luke 18 and the parable of the unjust judge, how the widow asks him to avenge her. And he’s like, no, no, go away. And then, in the end, he thinks, Oh, I know a way to get her to go away. I’ll just put it back on God. I’ll just say, God will avenge you in his right time. And he doesn’t actually do anything. That parable perfectly explains, what the pornography widows want is justice.

BINDING UP THE BROKENHEARTED, FINDING WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT CHEATING

Lisa: The church could help with the spiritual crisis. They could help catapult women into spiritual growth and circumvent the whole women feeling guilty for wanting justice, like they’re doing something wrong. Wanting justice, that’s coming from a really healthy place that’s coming from God’s heart. God wants justice for you too.

Anne: In my faith tradition, one of our leaders, he’s in a bad spot, and he’s praying and he’s saying, God, where are you? Then there’s this first where he actually asks for justice from God. He says, God, will you avenge my adversaries? They gloss over that part, here is this strong spiritual person, and he is asking for justice. What’s wrong with us asking for justice? What does the Bible say about cheating?

Lisa: We often quote Isaiah. The Messiah is there to bind up the brokenhearted and release the captive. And declare the day of vengeance on your enemies. Part of healing is justice. God hasn’t forgotten that.

Anne: It’ll be interesting to see how this all plays out. I have not observed that, but maybe someday, maybe in the next life. That’s what I always say.

Lisa: Yeah, so normal to go through some kind of crisis like this. Don’t be ashamed of it. If you feel like you need to go outside and shake your fist at God, throw some stuff up at the sky and scream at him, do it. Do not be concerned about committing some kind of unforgivable sin or some heresy, because God is big enough, and if you are keeping those lines of communication going, that’s amazing. Just keep it going, even if it feels like I have nothing good to say to you, and I have no nice way to say it.

ONLY FEELING DESPAIR

Lisa: He is a good father, and a good parent can take this stuff. He knows how you’re feeling. He loves you, and wants you to pour out to him.

Anne: God, I’m ready that you will have all of me the good and the bad. To let you see me in this vulnerable state, I’m willing to have you see me as I am this broken person in despair.

Lisa: Maybe that’s another part of the spiritual growth. We hit new levels of vulnerability with God. We find that we are still accepted, we are still loved, because I really did sense God’s love for me and care in the midst of my angriest days.

Anne: I went through about a nine month drought where I could not feel God at all. I prayed and read my scriptures. I study the scriptures every day, and I just felt trauma, sadness, and horror. It felt like the jaws of hell were gaping after me. I spent a lot of time at church crying in the bathroom stall. I continued to pray and study my scriptures. And look for what does the Bible say about cheating.

I think I had so many spiritual experiences to draw on during that time of drought. I know this works. I’m just going to keep going, even though I can’t feel it now.

Lisa:Sometimes it doesn’t feel like a place of comfort .

Anne: I had my group, and I have good friends and family. So I had support and could express how I felt. They were amazing. Instead of saying, Well, you should forgive, and then you’ll feel better. I think this comes down to forgiveness. They didn’t say that. They said, that makes sense.

Lisa: That’s what you need to hear.

NOT LIKING GOD’S ANSWER

Anne: The trauma is so intense, like forgiveness isn’t even on the table.

Lisa: No, absolutely not. surviving is on the table, and God gets that. In my personal interactions with God. I felt no pressure whatsoever to forgive. I felt, let’s just survive this.

Anne: You know where you said that toward the end of the survey, the participants were like, wait, I really did have a spiritual crisis. Right now I’m thinking, wait. I think I was talking to God and he answered me. During those nine months, but I just did not feel comforted. because He kept telling me to do nothing and wait and observe from a safe distance. What does the Bible say about cheating?

And I did not like that answer. I was like, if I just wait and observe from a safe distance, he’s not going to do anything. Like he wasn’t trying to repair a relationship, nothing. What I didn’t realize was that I was observing his true character. It gave me this clear picture of who he was, which I desperately needed.

And that’s what God wanted me to see. But it was not comforting at all. So I could not feel comforted. I didn’t feel peace. I didn’t feel calm that God knew what he was doing. It was so traumatic in every way.

During that time, God taught me about boundaries, and these are things that I now teach in the Workshop, how to see his true character. How to set actual boundaries and observe from a safe distance, so that you’re not going to get manipulated or lied to ever again, you’ll see the truth. But to go back to that painful time where I couldn’t feel comforted.

YOU NEED A COMMUNITY TO LIFE YOU UP, FIND WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT CHEATING

Anne: A friend, actually, it was like, just give up on God and get a really soft blanket. Put it around yourself and curl up in your closet. I was in so much emotional pain and couldn’t feel comforted. The best we could do was get a Teddy bear, you know?

Lisa: In the moment, what we sometimes need is a community that just lifts us up. A community that just says, I will weep with those who weep. I’m not going to sit here and preach to you like Job’s friends. I’m just going to sit here quietly with you and share your pain. That’s one of my main messages to the church these days.

You don’t understand. If you’ve not been there, just trust me, you don’t understand. Keep your advice and share her pain, pray for her and ask how you can help.

Anne: Thank you so much for being here today.

Lisa: Thank you, Anne. It is an honor to be invited to talk with you and to get to know you better and I’m so excited about what BTR is doing. I’m talking about it to like everybody who will listen. You and your team keep up the awesome work you’re doing.

Anne: Thank you. I’d like to thank Lisa for sharing her story. And talk about what does the Bible say about cheating.

IMPACT ON WOMEN’S SPIRITUALITY

Anne: And now here’s my interview with Natalie and Carmel.

Today I have the co-authors of the book Love and Betrayal, Stories of Hope to Help You Heal from Your Husband’s Pornography Addiction.

Carmel Parker White has a doctorate in Lifespan Human Development, and her educational experiences have cultivated a lifelong interest in the factors that influence the trajectories of people’s lives.

Her co-author, Natalie Black Milne, is integrating her background in communication with graduate work in family and child studies. She is familiar with the devastating impact addictions have on the family, and is also passionate about becoming a voice promoting the sanctity of the family. Welcome Natalie and Carmel. Thank you. As we’re talking today about betrayal trauma, how it impacts women, and families.

We also know, and we’ve had several guests on the podcast talk about the impact on a woman’s spirituality and the spiritual crisis that women go through when feeling betrayed. And by misinterpretations of what does the Bible say about cheating. Natalie, let’s have you go first. What is your feeling about how betrayal trauma impacts spirituality?

Natalie: That is one of the trickiest aspects of how a husband’s betrayal affects the woman, because there are so many layers and levels to it. But just in a brief explanation, it’s something as simple as it causes them to question everything. To question their beliefs, to question their relationship with God, to question if they can even receive communication with God.

INTENSE EMOTIONS ARE NORMAL

Natalie: And then it causes them to also question and even wonder if their ecclesiastical leaders are even giving them sound advice. And a lot of that is based on the trust they’ve lost, namely in men and in God himself. So it becomes a really hard thing for women to navigate, because it it shakes that foundation, that spiritual foundation, and their connection with God.

Carmel: And when we interviewed the women, I just wanted to mention that for them, it was oftentimes their intense emotional reactions. So their anger or their pain that would get this started. So the betrayal would occur, and then all those intense emotions could also be projected onto their spiritual experiences and feelings about God.

Anne: That’s interesting. And also the fact that the intense emotion is, I assume this is what happened with me. It was more than just the betrayal of my husband, but also, like Natalie just mentioned, the bad advice I received from my church leaders or the harmful advice that harmed me even more. So I’m questioning that, and then I’m having intense emotions, which is normal. Men might think, Why is she acting like this? But for us, if we acted differently, that would be weird, right?

Natalie: I agree with that. And what was interesting, though, is for many women. That level of intensity was the first time they experienced that, and some even wondered if that was okay, or if, say, for instance, God would be looking down upon them for that. So it caused them to question that, and we had to assure them, just as their therapist did, that that’s a very normal response, and you should be responding that way.

SPIRITUAL FRACTURE, WHAT DOES THE BIBLE SAY ABOUT CHEATING

Anne: I write in a gratitude journal every day, and one of the things I wrote for a few days, I kept saying, I’m so grateful for my anger. I was like, yeah, I am grateful for my anger, because how else would I feel?

Carmel: It’s often our emotions that warn us that we feel something deeply and need to deal with it. And in this case, the intense emotions that come from the betrayal cause us to re examine everything because of those emotions.

Anne: So, in your book, you talk about a spiritual fracture. Can you tell me more about that?

Carmel: That’s a term that actually came from Dr. Kevin Skinner. From his perspective, women were trusting their husbands that they would be reliable, and they wouldn’t let down their commitments, and they wouldn’t let them down. But when that commitment or trust has been broken, women begin to see people and relationships they thought were safe, as not safe anymore.

So they start to ask themselves about all relationships. Is this a good relationship? Can I meet my needs? Then this becomes a spiritual problem, because they start to wonder if God will do the same for them. And they wonder why God didn’t warn them. And they wonder why God didn’t prevent this kind of pain.

Anne: Well, and we’ve been told in church, if you do this, and you do this, you will have a happy and peaceful life. And your marriage will be beautiful, and you’ll have this wonderful family. Then we’re like, I did all those things. And I am not getting the things you promised. What does the Bible say about cheating.

WHO CAN I TRUST IF I CAN’T TRUST MY HUSBAND?

Carmel: Women start to feel like this contract has been changed. I did all what I thought I was supposed to do, and now I don’t have the outcome. How does this work?

Natalie: Exactly. And when they join that union as husband and wife, most married people also do that in a contract with God. And so, when that most personal, spiritual, and special relationship has been so badly damaged, and for many women, just out of the blue, you can see the fracturing that would take place across the board.

If I can’t trust my husband, then who can I trust? Can I trust my best friend? Or, can I trust my sister? Can I trust God himself? And it’s just because that relationship is the most intimate relationship they have next to God himself.

Anne: So can a person who has experienced betrayal trauma trust in God again? My own personal feeling is that I am still working on this. I’m not sure if I trust. I want to trust God again. I’m working through that in some ways. I absolutely trust him. And other ways I’m like, eh, I don’t know. Tell me about what you found.

Carmel: Over a period of usually years, they began to trust God. They did begin to realize He’s the only one they can count on. That they can’t count on anyone else but God, God will be there. But it took many women years to get to that point where they felt they could trust God again.

Natalie: Right and something that I noticed not just with these women, but with my own life and life in general.

CAN I TRUST MYSELF?

Natalie: I think a lot of that trusting comes down to women can logically think God is all loving and powerful, and he is my father. I can trust him, but they don’t trust themselves in trusting him.

They want to trust him, but they think, well, I’ve trusted before and look what happened. Or maybe I don’t trust how I receive communication from him. I’m not confident in my communication and those feelings with him. To me, I see that it’s that dance between trusting Him, but then also trusting myself, that I can trust Him. or that I know that I have the proper skills to be successful.

Carmel: And I might add one more thing. Women going through this question themselves just as much as their husbands and other people. They lose confidence in their ability to make judgments or to make a good plan or direction for them to go. So they’re questioning everything, including themselves.

Anne: For me, it’s I did those things. Will I receive the blessings you promised me? And I have not yet. I guess, experienced that in some ways. And so part of me now is like, well, I will trust when I see it. But I’m trying now to be like, okay, I can trust before I see it. But after what I’ve been through, it’s very difficult to wrap my head around that.

Natalie: That’s why I think spiritual fracturing is so comprehensive, and a lot of it is based on that very thing. You don’t just question your husband, your relationship with God, you question yourself, and there’s just a spiritual fracturing on so many levels.

HOW CLERGY CAN HELP

Anne: And I want to clarify that the women themselves aren’t making these spiritual fractures. These spiritual fractures are happening to them as a result of someone else’s choices.

One of the ways their spirituality is fractured is by going to a clergy member or church leader and asking for advice, or asking for help, and not receiving the correct advice or not receiving help. For me, that’s the most common reason why women don’t trust or have a difficult time trusting clergy after betrayal trauma.

Is that your experience from the women that you interviewed?

Carmel: I want to say, first of all, that most clergy don’t have extensive exposure to addiction and addictive behavior, so they don’t realize what they need to do to help either the husband or the wife. For the wife, they need to communicate that, you know, I care about you, God cares about you, we need to heal this, you’re as important as your spouse.

But then the clergy also needs to understand that sometimes the spouse will lie to them, sometimes the spouse will minimize what’s going on, sometimes mercy looks an awful lot like enabling behavior.

Anne: I did a survey, and the women I surveyed said they would feel most supported by their clergy, if their clergy held their spouse accountable in some way. Rather than just saying, Oh, oh, don’t look at pornography again. And you wife, you need to communicate better.

Natalie: Right?

Anne: Right.

CLERGY NEEDS TO UNDERSTAND A WOMAN’S POINT OF VIEW

Anne: But there was none of that. That he would hold him accountable for his abuse and pornography use and lying, and then support her. Because oftentimes the spouse abuses her. And sometimes then clergy, saying, well, you need to change something about you. In order for this to stop,

Carmel: I was just going to say, women get that exact response from clergy. That well, it’s not that bad. It’s not like he’s addicted. The clergy needs to understand how women view it. In addition, you probably shouldn’t be making the call if he’s addicted or not. Usually clergy don’t have that kind of mental health training, but they can get more information. I don’t know what’s going on here, um, but I’m going to get some more information.

Anne: My church leader said to me, “Well, what difference does it make to you if he’s looking for help?” And I was like, it’s adultery. And he was like, well, it does not say that in the church handbook. And I was like, I don’t care what the church handbook says. Jesus said it in the Bible.

But getting in a fight with my church leader was not fun. It was totally miserable. And then there’s always this discussion or not always, but frequently a discussion about forgiveness. And that is when wives say, wait a minute. Forgiveness is one thing, but trust is another thing. What are some mistaken assumptions about forgiveness that you discovered when writing your book?

Natalie: We specifically centered on three or four different ones, and I’ll just tell you those right now.

FORGIVENESS TAKES TIME

Natalie: A lot of women believed that I can’t enter into the process of forgiving until I feel perfectly safe, comfortable, and ready. If you choose that route to forgive, you will probably never find yourself forgiving, because you’re never again going to feel perfectly safe, comfortable, or ready to forgive.

And so that becomes a personal journey of trying to figure out in your mind exactly what forgiveness is and what it looks like. And so that’s something else that leads to a mistaken assumption, is that forgiveness happens immediately. Absolutely not, forgiveness is personal and individualized, and it will take time.

And to just say, oh, I forgive you. Some women automatically said that as soon as their husband confessed, but then realized that, wait a minute, I don’t forgive him. I said that because I thought that’s what I was supposed to say. But to realize that true forgiveness takes time, and it’s actually a miracle that happens within the heart.

Another mistaken assumption would be that forgiving my husband would be the same as admitting that my anger toward him was exaggerated or unjustified. Some women believe that if I forgive him, my anger wasn’t real or that it was, like I said, over exaggerated. But that anger is real, and because you forgive someone doesn’t mean that that anger will not resurface. Anger and forgiveness are two separate things. And then the last one that we talk about is when I forgive my husband, I in turn make myself weak and vulnerable.

I’m better off denying my pain to make peace. That is absolutely untrue, and the exact opposite is true, in that it takes a lot of strength and resolve to forgive in the proper way.

HUSBANDS ARE RESPONSIBLE TO RESTORE TRUST

Natalie: So over time, women learn that forgiveness is for their own peace and progress. And that forgiveness and trust are two completely different things. Trust is definitely on the man. If that trust is rebuilt, he has to prove that he’s trustworthy. Forgiveness is between a woman and God. Between those two, that miracle of forgiveness can take place in its own time and in its own way. Trust, the husband definitely has to be the one to restore that.

Anne: Forgiveness is a gift that we give ourselves, which brings us peace, and brings us perspective, whereas trust is a gift we give others when they have shown they are trustworthy.

So for me, for example, I feel like I have forgiven my ex. I feel at peace with that. But I do not trust him. And every time I have even attempted to engage with him, I am attacked or blamed for the situation. And so I hold a no contact boundary because of the trust issue.

Carmel: Sometimes you may forgive them for one part of the hurt they caused in your life, but later something else comes up that you think, well, I thought I’d forgiven him for everything. So you may have to forgive them for how he’s hurt you, and then how he’s hurt the kids. It does just take time.

Anne: Yes, I think time has to be a factor.

THANKS FOR HELPING

Anne: Thank you, Carmel and Natalie, for being here today. And thank you for your work. I think it’s so important that all of us are considering these issues. We’d love to hear your comments about this episode and spiritual situations that you have found yourself in. Please comment at the bottom.

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So until next week, stay safe out there.